EJ Moeran

Started by tjguitar, April 15, 2007, 05:18:53 PM

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Christo

#160
January 11, 2019, 11:57:27 PM
Quote from: cilgwyn on January 11, 2019, 03:05:12 PM(I haven't got the Hiccups.......sorry,Hickox!! ;D)
He RIP.  ;)
... music is not only an 'entertainment', nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948

vandermolen

#161
January 12, 2019, 12:16:39 AM Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 11:22:09 AM by vandermolen
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 11, 2019, 04:01:51 PM
What you said about Boult having a special quality could be said of many of his performances. He really was a remarkable conductor and the older I get, the more I realize just how special he was.
Yes, Boult was very understated on the podium, standing virtually motionless using a very long conductor's baton but produced some wonderful performances and recordings not least of the music of his friend Vaughan Williams's music ('Job' was dedicated to Boult). He is very much known for conducting the music of British composers but I also really like his Sibelius recordings. His Walton Symphony 1 and Vaughan Williams Symphony 6 (Decca) are favourite versions of mine. Also, to remain on focus here, his Lyrita recordings of Moeran's Symphony and Sinfonietta and also unrivalled, IMHO, as is his recording of Rubbra's 7th Symphony.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

J.Z. Herrenberg

#162
January 12, 2019, 04:51:14 AM Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 04:56:58 AM by J.Z. Herrenberg
Always good to see Moeran alive and well, being listened to. Thanks to you all, I went back to the Symphony and the Sinfonietta, and still love them very much. In Moeran the pastoral is warped by pain. RVW's pastoral Third may reflect WW1, but in Moeran it gets into the harmonies. Moeran is shellshocked Delius. Hence the poignant quality of even an upbeat piece like the Overture for a Masque. To put it in Tolkienian fashion: in Moeran the Shire is invaded by the Shadow.
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

Mirror Image

#163
January 12, 2019, 06:37:20 AM
Quote from: J.Z. Herrenberg on January 12, 2019, 04:51:14 AM
Always good to see Moeran alive and well, being listened to. Thanks to you all, I went back to the Symphony and the Sinfonietta, and still love them very much. In Moeran the pastoral is warped by pain. RVW's pastoral Third may reflect WW1, but in Moeran it gets into the harmonies. Moeran is shellshocked Delius. Hence the poignant quality of even an upbeat piece like the Overture for a Masque. To put it in Tolkienian fashion: in Moeran the Shire is invaded by the Shadow.

Great analogies, Johan.  8)

J

#164
January 12, 2019, 09:35:39 AM
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 12, 2019, 06:37:20 AM
Great analogies, Johan.  8)

At least provocative, - but in need of more elaboration to flesh out the meaning thereof.

"Great" (as always) is flattering but empty (at least intellectually).

Christo

#165
January 12, 2019, 09:42:47 AM
Quote from: J on January 12, 2019, 09:35:39 AM
"Great" (as always) is flattering but empty (at least intellectually).

Quote from: Mirror Image on January 12, 2019, 06:37:20 AM
Great analogies, Johan.  8)

There; fixed.
... music is not only an 'entertainment', nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948

J.Z. Herrenberg

#166
January 12, 2019, 09:44:30 AM
Quote from: J on January 12, 2019, 09:35:39 AM
At least provocative, - but in need of more elaboration to flesh out the meaning thereof.

"Great" (as always) is flattering but empty (at least intellectually).


OK.


If you know (and love) Delius, you know about his intense chromaticism. It evokes both Eros and landscape. Moeran's lyricism is also chromatic, but there is no Eros, but something tortured, and the landscape you see is not sunny, but dark. It's like Tolkien's dream-England, the Shire, taking on some of the features of Mordor. Moeran survived World War I, it probably accounted for his drinking problem. He also had a plate in his head where shrapnel had hit it.


That's behind what I wrote.
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

J.Z. Herrenberg

#167
January 12, 2019, 09:46:10 AM
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

J

#168
January 12, 2019, 10:20:19 AM
Quote from: Christo on January 12, 2019, 09:42:47 AM
There; fixed.

Could you fix my following comment (to Jeffrey) also?

Christo

#169
January 12, 2019, 10:25:20 AM
Quote from: J on January 12, 2019, 10:20:19 AMCould you fix my following comment (to Jeffrey) also?

Quote from: J on January 12, 2019, 09:41:06 AMNow wait a minute Many thanks, Jeffrey, you're always right.  :o  Shall I dig up the quote (maybe on this thread somewhere) where you said Dilkes' reading of the Symphony was your very favorite?

Sure, fixed too.
... music is not only an 'entertainment', nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948

J

#170
January 12, 2019, 10:25:32 AM Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 10:36:39 AM by J
Quote from: J.Z. Herrenberg on January 12, 2019, 09:44:30 AM

OK.


If you know (and love) Delius, you know about his intense chromaticism. It evokes both Eros and landscape. Moeran's lyricism is also chromatic, but there is no Eros, but something tortured, and the landscape you see is not sunny, but dark. It's like Tolkien's dream-England, the Shire, taking on some of the features of Mordor. Moeran survived World War I, it probably accounted for his drinking problem. He also had a plate in his head where shrapnel had hit it.


That's behind what I wrote.


Something I can think about now, Johan.  I wouldn't have "demanded" anything I thought you incapable of.

John's unchallenging flattery was no more than indulgence.

J

#171
January 12, 2019, 10:29:59 AM
Quote from: Christo on January 12, 2019, 10:25:20 AM
Sure, fixed too.

Hehe.  Yeah, I can go with that.

J.Z. Herrenberg

#172
January 12, 2019, 10:38:32 AM
Quote from: J on January 12, 2019, 10:25:32 AM
Something I can think about now, Johan.  I wouldn't have "demanded" anything I thought you incapable of.


I can err on the side of brevity. Glad to hear I didn't...
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

J

#173
January 12, 2019, 10:48:16 AM
Quote from: J.Z. Herrenberg on January 12, 2019, 10:38:32 AM

I can err on the side of brevity. Glad to hear I didn't...

Err you did in regards to my wishes, - but relative to the forum I suppose appropriately.

J.Z. Herrenberg

#174
January 12, 2019, 10:58:31 AM
Quote from: J on January 12, 2019, 10:48:16 AM
Err you did in regards to my wishes, - but relative to the forum I suppose appropriately.


Excellent.


As for Moeran, I think he has carved out his own special niche in British music. His music has endured.


Btw: has anyone ever noticed in the slow middle movement of the Sinfonietta ,that one of the variations sounds remarkably similar to the Force theme in Star Wars?
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

vandermolen

#175
January 12, 2019, 11:29:09 AM Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 11:32:17 AM by vandermolen
I like Johan's idea of Moeran as a shell shocked Delius.
And yes, Dilkes is my favourite version of the Symphony - it was the first one I knew on LP and made a huge impression on my youthful self. I bought it from Harrods, where I was working in my university holiday and made use of my staff discount to purchase it (context).
Dilkes is more intimate with an IMHO unrivalled poetry in the slow movement, the end of which I find very moving.
Boult's is more magisterial.
And yes, I am always right (just ask my wife and daughter).
8)
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

J.Z. Herrenberg

#176
January 12, 2019, 11:41:48 AM
Your wife and daughter are as unfallible as the Pope.
I don't know the Dilkes... Something to explore!
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

J

#177
January 12, 2019, 12:04:35 PM Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 12:21:12 PM by J
Loving many others as I do (Rubbra, Brian, Bax, Vaughan Williams...) Delius & Moeran among English composers touch a vein of feeling and manifest a unique quality I especially resonate with, and thus the ways their music both intersects and yet also contrasts is persistently interesting to me, though nothing I've quite been able to nail down in a satisfying way.  Brief and only suggestive as it is, and only one approach among many as it might be, I find your (Johan's) comment (specifically about "Eros" and its lack vis-à-vis Delius and Moeran) quite striking and well worth reflecting over.

J

#178
January 12, 2019, 12:19:40 PM Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 12:24:33 PM by J
Dilkes is my own favorite too, Jeffrey, and your contrasting his interpretation's "intimacy" with that of Boult's "majesty" a perfect characterization of their difference.

J.Z. Herrenberg

#179
January 12, 2019, 12:22:12 PM Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 12:26:54 PM by J.Z. Herrenberg
I have always seen Delius and Brian as complementary. Moeran and Bax are in the Delian orbit, although there is an epic side to Bax which intersects with Brian. Delius, to me, is unalloyed Beauty, and Brian sheer Power (at their characteristic best). Moeran's range is smaller, but within his limits he plunges the depths. When I listened to the Symphony today I was again struck by how masterly and self-assured it is. And how moving.
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato
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