EJ Moeran

[Papy Oli]

The recording date for the Symphony is 1975 which is pretty much 'peak Lyrita' in terms of engineering quality, and that means up there with the best.  The Sinfonietta recording date is 1968 which, for all it's over 50 years ago now, is not what I'd view as historical.  I'm saying this not having heard this recording at all - but I'd buy with confidence.

ok, thank you aukhawk.

[Irons]

The recording date for the Symphony is 1975 which is pretty much 'peak Lyrita' in terms of engineering quality, and that means up there with the best.  The Sinfonietta recording date is 1968 which, for all it's over 50 years ago now, is not what I'd view as historical.  I'm saying this not having heard this recording at all - but I'd buy with confidence.

Being pedantic the dates quoted on CD's are incorrect. Lyrita hired Decca to make their recordings from 1965 onwards. Both the Sinfonietta (22-23 November 1967) and the Symphony (13-15 August 1973) were recorded by Decca's best sound engineer, Kenneth Wilkinson at the Kingsway Hall. Both recordings, as well as the rest of the Lyrita catalogue are superb.

[Roasted Swan]

Being pedantic the dates quoted on CD's are incorrect. Lyrita hired Decca to make their recordings from 1965 onwards. Both the Sinfonietta (22-23 November 1967) and the Symphony (13-15 August 1973) were recorded by Decca's best sound engineer, Kenneth Wilkinson at the Kingsway Hall. Both recordings, as well as the rest of the Lyrita catalogue are superb.

Seeing the name Kenneth Wilkinson on just about any recording is pretty much a guarantee of sonic excellence.  Think of all those RCA "Classic Film Scores" discs which are the same venue/engineer as well as many ex-Readers Digest recordings which now appear on Cesky and elsewhere.  I must admit that I actively seek out his name.

Odd quirk of the original Lyrita LP's that recording info was never included.  The main thing is Irons is 100% right - all the early Lyrita discs stand the test of time in both artistic and audio terms and this Moeran coupling is superb. [that said the Del Mar/Bax 6 is one of the least good..... I wonder why?]

[Irons]

Seeing the name Kenneth Wilkinson on just about any recording is pretty much a guarantee of sonic excellence.  Think of all those RCA "Classic Film Scores" discs which are the same venue/engineer as well as many ex-Readers Digest recordings which now appear on Cesky and elsewhere.  I must admit that I actively seek out his name.

Odd quirk of the original Lyrita LP's that recording info was never included.  The main thing is Irons is 100% right - all the early Lyrita discs stand the test of time in both artistic and audio terms and this Moeran coupling is superb. [that said the Del Mar/Bax 6 is one of the least good..... I wonder why?]

Totally agree. The film and Readers Digest recordings that Gerhard and Wilkinson made in tandem are fabulous.

I was intrigued by your observation that the Del Mar/Bax 6 is not up to the others. I assumed the Lyrita Bax symphonies were recorded as a set, in fact they were not, far from it. The first recording (6) was one of the first recordings made by Decca for Lyrita, and (7) one of the last. The 6th also was with a different orchestra (New Philharmonia) and the rest of the cycle with LPO.

Bax Symphonies on Lyrita -

Symphony No.6: NPO Del Mar. 1966, Kingsway Hall. Sound engineer, James Lock and Gordon Parry.

Symphony No. 1 & 2: LPO Myer Fredman. 1970, Walthamstow Assembly Hall. Sound engineer, Kenneth Wilkinson.

Symphony No.5: LPO Raymond Leppard. 1971, Walthamstow. Sound Engineer, Stanley Goodall.

Symphony No.7: LPO Raymond Leppard. 1974, Kingsway Hall. sound Engineer, Philip Wade, Malcolm Hogg and Peter Van Biene.

[vandermolen]

Totally agree. The film and Readers Digest recordings that Gerhard and Wilkinson made in tandem are fabulous.

I was intrigued by your observation that the Del Mar/Bax 6 is not up to the others. I assumed the Lyrita Bax symphonies were recorded as a set, in fact they were not, far from it. The first recording (6) was one of the first recordings made by Decca for Lyrita, and (7) one of the last. The 6th also was with a different orchestra (New Philharmonia) and the rest of the cycle with LPO.

Bax Symphonies on Lyrita -

Symphony No.6: NPO Del Mar. 1966, Kingsway Hall. Sound engineer, James Lock and Gordon Parry.

Symphony No. 1 & 2: LPO Myer Fredman. 1970, Walthamstow Assembly Hall. Sound engineer, Kenneth Wilkinson.

Symphony No.5: LPO Raymond Leppard. 1971, Walthamstow. Sound Engineer, Stanley Goodall.

Symphony No.7: LPO Raymond Leppard. 1974, Kingsway Hall. sound Engineer, Philip Wade, Malcolm Hogg and Peter Van Biene.

Also I think that Leppard and Fredman were better conductors of Bax!

[Irons]

Also I think that Leppard and Fredman were better conductors of Bax!

Fredman's reputation of conducting Bax is like good wine, improves with age.

I either read somewhere or dreamt it that Sir Adrian didn't like Bax's music. Although he did record for Lyrita a set of tone-poems this would explain no symphony recordings.

[vandermolen]

Fredman's reputation of conducting Bax is like good wine, improves with age.

I either read somewhere or dreamt it that Sir Adrian didn't like Bax's music. Although he did record for Lyrita a set of tone-poems this would explain no symphony recordings.

His Lyrita set is excellent as is the November Woods, originally coupled with Moeran's Sinfonietta on LP. Boult also recorded an earlier (excellent) Tintagel for Decca - possibly my favourite recording of the work.

[Oates]

I either read somewhere or dreamt it that Sir Adrian didn't like Bax's music. Although he did record for Lyrita a set of tone-poems this would explain no symphony recordings.

Boult has certainly been quoted as saying that he couldn't distinguish one Bax symphony from another - or that they were all indistinct. He might have had a more charitable view of the tone poems however, as many people do.

[Irons]

His Lyrita set is excellent as is the November Woods, originally coupled with Moeran's Sinfonietta on LP. Boult also recorded an earlier (excellent) Tintagel for Decca - possibly my favourite recording of the work.

I think a case of first love. The second CD I ever purchased was the set of Bax tone poems recorded by Bryden Thomson for Chandos. I thought at the time and still do his rendition of November Woods terrific and my favourite tone poem by the composer. In comparison Boult disappoints me, I find him slow and lacking the winter chill I hear from Thomson.
The tone poem set Lyrita put out (LP) by Boult are fine. It is only November Woods I have a problem with.

[vandermolen]

I think a case of first love. The second CD I ever purchased was the set of Bax tone poems recorded by Bryden Thomson for Chandos. I thought at the time and still do his rendition of November Woods terrific and my favourite tone poem by the composer. In comparison Boult disappoints me, I find him slow and lacking the winter chill I hear from Thomson.
The tone poem set Lyrita put out (LP) by Boult are fine. It is only November Woods I have a problem with.

I must listen to Thomson's 'November Woods'.

[Roasted Swan]

I think a case of first love. The second CD I ever purchased was the set of Bax tone poems recorded by Bryden Thomson for Chandos. I thought at the time and still do his rendition of November Woods terrific and my favourite tone poem by the composer. In comparison Boult disappoints me, I find him slow and lacking the winter chill I hear from Thomson.
The tone poem set Lyrita put out (LP) by Boult are fine. It is only November Woods I have a problem with.

At the risk of talking about Bax too much for the Morean thread - the Lyrita/Boult/Tintagel is rhythmically very slack and rather tired sounding.  Following the score shows that for some reason Boult is rather generalised in his account.  Likewise the November Woods - the playing of the orchestra and the Lyrita sounds brings much pleasure but this is a tenser/more disturbed work than Boult finds.  I agree that the Thomson November Woods was something of a revelation on the front since before then Boult was pretty much the only reference recording.  Vandermolen mentions enjoying the earlier Boult Tintagel; in that performance he is more alert, rhythms are better sprung and more tightly pointed but in the transfer I have the recording is too thin and the playing too scrappy for me to enjoy unreservedly. 

[vandermolen]

Helpful linking of Bax and Moeran! One of my favourite Lyrita LP covers.

And my first encounter with all these works:

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

To expand this sudden Bax excrescence a bit more: I love Barbirolli's account of Tintagel...

[vandermolen]

To expand this sudden Bax excrescence a bit more: I love Barbirolli's account of Tintagel...

Me too - it's a fine version. The one I was very impressed with recently was a historic recording conducted by George Weldon.

[Roasted Swan]

To expand this sudden Bax excrescence a bit more: I love Barbirolli's account of Tintagel...

Indeed the Barbirolli is very good - the whole original LP was a good 'un!

I have the Weldon recording (and remember my father having that LP too) but have no clear memory of the performance.  Something for tomorrow's listening!

[vandermolen]

Indeed the Barbirolli is very good - the whole original LP was a good 'un!

I have the Weldon recording (and remember my father having that LP too) but have no clear memory of the performance.  Something for tomorrow's listening!

Here it is. I have the CD version with the same cover:

[Irons]

At the risk of talking about Bax too much for the Morean thread - the Lyrita/Boult/Tintagel is rhythmically very slack and rather tired sounding.  Following the score shows that for some reason Boult is rather generalised in his account.  Likewise the November Woods - the playing of the orchestra and the Lyrita sounds brings much pleasure but this is a tenser/more disturbed work than Boult finds.  I agree that the Thomson November Woods was something of a revelation on the front since before then Boult was pretty much the only reference recording.  Vandermolen mentions enjoying the earlier Boult Tintagel; in that performance he is more alert, rhythms are better sprung and more tightly pointed but in the transfer I have the recording is too thin and the playing too scrappy for me to enjoy unreservedly.

My thoughts exactly. Boult's "November Woods" is often critically praised and I have always been perplexed by this. 

[Irons]

Here it is. I have the CD version with the same cover:

I have the LP. I think George Weldon, and up to a point Sargent too, unsung as far as English music is concerned.

[vandermolen]

I have the LP. I think George Weldon, and up to a point Sargent too, unsung as far as English music is concerned.

I agree. Sargent's BBC recording of Sibelius's 5th Symphony is my favourite version. There is a wonderful disc of The Planets and shorter works by Holst and a very good Walton Symphony 1, which I prefer to the famous Previn recording on RCA.

[Roasted Swan]

... and a very good Walton Symphony 1, which I prefer to the famous Previn recording on RCA.

Vandermolen - I agree with you on almost everything!  But that Sargent/Walton 1 is a definite clunker - slack and lacking vehemence and drive.  Compare the Sargent & Previn timings


Movement        Previn             Sargent
1                     13:49              15:05
2                     5:53                6:57
3                     11:21              10:17
4                     12:11              13:23

The one movement that needs reflection and breadth Sargent rushes and for the rest he lumbers along.  Even the New Philharmonia sound bored!  The Sargent version was the first I ever had and I loved it to bits.  THEN I heard others including Previn and suddenly the veil dropped from my eyes (and ears!).  Actually, I think this is just about the ONLY thing I disagree with you about - so that's pretty good!