EJ Moeran

[J]

Coincidentally (and almost astonishingly) there's another similar instance of just what we've established here in regards to discrete Sinaisky/BBC performances of Moeran's Symphony that concerns Moeran's "other" Symphony, - fleshed out and performed by Martin Yates and the Royal Scottish Orch.  In the British Archive at the Art Music Forum is a performance of the Premiere by these forces, very clearly recorded and with a real sense of occasion to the proceedings, - wonderful to experience.  Not so long thereafter Dutton issued a studio recording with the same forces that falls rather flat in my judgment, and with noticeably more opaque sonics, -  just not a patch on their earlier rendition.
 
You would think after me experiencing the disparity between these two contiguous performances of Moeran's "Symphony No.2" (with identical performers but on different occasions and in different venues) I might haves suspected the same phenomenon could underlie any cognitive dissonance over the YouTube and Magazine CD comparisons that so troubled me subsequently, - but it never crossed my mind.

[Roasted Swan]

Coincidentally (and almost astonishingly) there's another similar instance of just what we've established here in regards to discrete Sinaisky/BBC performances of Moeran's Symphony that concerns Moeran's "other" Symphony, - fleshed out and performed by Martin Yates and the Royal Scottish Orch.  In the British Archive at the Art Music Forum is a performance of the Premiere by these forces, very clearly recorded and with a real sense of occasion to the proceedings, - wonderful to experience.  Not so long thereafter Dutton issued a studio recording with the same forces that falls rather flat in my judgment, and with noticeably more opaque sonics, -  just not a patch on their earlier rendition.
 
You would think after me experiencing the disparity between these two contiguous performances of Moeran's "Symphony No.2" (with identical performers but on different occasions and in different venues) I might haves suspected the same phenomenon could underlie any cognitive dissonance over the YouTube and Magazine CD comparisons that so troubled me subsequently, - but it never crossed my mind.

The difference here is that the "other" Yates performance post-dates the Dutton recording - it was part of the English music festival at Dorchester Abbey and again the existence of the recording is thanks to the BBC for preserving it and also the BBC Concert Orchestra for playing it.

Where exactly is this performance on Art Music Forum is this live performance - I couldn't find it during a cursory search....

[Irons]

It through me for a bit.... even things like the cymbals are clearly the same pair... but it shows how the BBC engineers struggle with the Royal Albert Hall as a venue and how the Bridgewater is a much more sympathetic recording environment.  It also underlines how in many ways a 'single' recorded performance is a fallible record of an interpretation.... within a few months the same artists were giving a significantly differing view of a work....

I posted this yesterday but like other forum members experienced difficulties and my post disappeared in thin air! Anyway, may be the exception that proves the rule but coincidently the current BBC MM freebie includes a recording from the Royal Albert Hall and one from Bridgwater. You've guessed it the one from the RAH is in far better sound - from a Prom of last year, didn't like the performance. The Bridgewater, goes back a bit (1997). The sound is acceptable but no more then that, a fine performance of the Elgar CC though. 

[Christo]

The difference here is that the "other" Yates performance post-dates the Dutton recording - it was part of the English music festival at Dorchester Abbey and again the existence of the recording is thanks to the BBC for preserving it and also the BBC Concert Orchestra for playing it.

Where exactly is this performance on Art Music Forum is this live performance - I couldn't find it during a cursory search....

The Art-Music Forum is a complicated puzzle, but the archive is under the download section: the Moeran can be found here: https://www.mediafire.com/?yqrs5q7n92j17

[vandermolen]

The Art-Music Forum is a complicated puzzle, but the archive is under the download section: the Moeran can be found here: https://www.mediafire.com/?yqrs5q7n92j17

I also have a recording of the Moeran Symphony by the Shrewsbury Philharmonic (complete with cathedral bells) but I'm not sure that I'd recommend that one.

[Roasted Swan]

The Art-Music Forum is a complicated puzzle, but the archive is under the download section: the Moeran can be found here: https://www.mediafire.com/?yqrs5q7n92j17

many thanks!

[J]

Anyone imbibed this newish YouTube performance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frXgyEZpMvo

A hard listen, in my case.  I just didn't think it cohered very well.  Some of the tempos and tempo relationships seemed very peculiar.

There was no packed house.

[vandermolen]

Anyone viewed and listened to this newish YouTube performance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frXgyEZpMvo

I had a hard time with it.  To start with, the tempos and tempo relationships seem very idiosyncratic.

It doesn't look like a packed house.

How interesting! Thanks for posting this - one of my favourite symphonies. Interesting to hear the, presumably correct, pronunciation of the composer's name from the RTE announcer. Yes, pity about the poor turnout for the concert. I was at the Sinaisky performance in London, also featured there on You Tube. That performance was issued on the accompanying CD (with Parry's 5th Symphony) with BBC Music Magazine a while back.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Will be listening to the complete performance later today. Thanks for the alert, J!

Yes, I heard the presenter saying Mor-AN, the Irish way, too, but still think it's MORE-an, Jeffrey...

[vandermolen]

Will be listening to the complete performance later today. Thanks for the alert, J!

Yes, I heard the presenter saying Mor-AN, the Irish way, too, but still think it's MORE-an, Jeffrey...

I think you're probably right Johan from other pronunciations I have heard.

[J]

I was at the Sinaisky performance in London, also featured there on You Tube. That performance was issued on the accompanying CD (with Parry's 5th Symphony) with BBC Music Magazine a while back.

You've forgotten our previous discussion here, Jeffrey.  The YouTube Sinaisky performance isn't the same as the BBC Magazine issued one.  Scroll back for details.

[Papy Oli]

Anyone imbibed this newish YouTube performance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frXgyEZpMvo

A hard listen, in my case.  I just didn't think it cohered very well.  Some of the tempos and tempo relationships seemed very peculiar.

There was no packed house.

Thank you for that one J, saved it on my Watch Later list.

[vandermolen]

You've forgotten our previous discussion here, Jeffrey.  The YouTube Sinaisky performance isn't the same as the BBC Magazine issued one.  Scroll back for details.

Oh, thanks Greg.

[J]

Having listened through twice now, I can't say anything good about Henty's performance, I'm afraid.  Just one thing after another to my ears, with no discernable coherence. The 2nd movement especially is terribly unfocused, and positively glacial.  It's enervating, - and things don't improve subsequently. Ensemble is poor throughout, and the players don't look that into it (despite Henty's own passionate exercising).  The audience raved however (perhaps just what audiences do nowadays, without understanding), so what do I know? 

Was anyone here impressed?

[vandermolen]

Having listened through twice now, I can't say anything good about Henty's performance, I'm afraid.  Just one thing after another to my ears, with no discernable coherence. The 2nd movement especially is terribly unfocused, and no less than glacial.  It's enervating, - and things don't improve subsequently. Ensemble could be a lot better, and the players don't look that into it (though Henty himself does jump around incessantly).  The audience raved however (perhaps just what audiences do nowadays, without understanding), so what do I know? 

Was anyone here impressed?

So far I only listened to the opening, which seemed a bit wanting in atmosphere compared with Boult, Heward and Dilkes. I find the Vernon Handley recording to be too 'beefy'.

[J]

So far I only listened to the opening, which seemed a bit wanting in atmosphere compared with Boult, Heward and Dilkes. I find the Vernon Handley recording to be too 'beefy'.

But check out this apparently alternative (live) Handley performance I just noted posted on YouTube a few weeks ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mbUxGCn_rQ

Unlike Henty's discombobulated and indifferently played performance, Handley & Co. are completely inside the music.

It's crackling.  I was riveted.

[vandermolen]

But check out this apparently alternative (live) Handley performance I just noted posted on YouTube a few weeks ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mbUxGCn_rQ

Unlike Henty's discombobulated and indifferently played performance, Handley & Co. are completely inside the music.

It's crackling.  I was riveted.

Well, I agree Greg. From the opening chords you can tell that there is something really special about this performance which is now my favourite version. It has an urgency and communicative power power unlike (IMO) Handley's studio recording made with the same forces for Chandos. What a pity that this live recording was not released on CD instead. The brass were especially exciting and I too was riveted from beginning to end. I also really liked the accompanying visual imagery on the You Tube video, ending up with Moeran's rather neglected-looking grave in an overgrown churchyard. Thanks for posting this marvellous performance.

[André]

Well, I agree Greg. From the opening chords you can tell that there is something really special about this performance which is now my favourite version. It has an urgency and communicative power power unlike (IMO) Handley's studio recording made with the same forces for Chandos. What a pity that this live recording was not released on CD instead. The brass were especially exciting and I too was riveted from beginning to end. I also really liked the accompanying visual imagery on the You Tube video, ending up with Moeran's rather neglected-looking grave in an overgrown churchyard. Thanks for posting this marvellous performance.

+1. An urgent, passionate performance. The sibelian overtones very much to the fore.

(Edited for typo)

[vandermolen]

+1. An urgent, passionate performance. The siblian overtones very much to the fore.

Yes, I definitely agree with your sibelian overtones point André.
And here is a nice photo of the Great Man, looking happier than usual, which I have never seen before:

[Mirror Image]

Yes, I definitely agree with your sibelian overtones point André.
And here is a nice photo of the Great Man, looking happier than usual, which I have never seen before:

Nice photo, indeed, Jeffrey. I rather like this one: