EJ Moeran

Started by tjguitar, April 15, 2007, 05:18:53 PM

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HotFXMan

#560
Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 14, 2021, 02:14:09 PM
Absolutely re Self.  I don't think Maxwell is saying for a second his book supercedes previous studies just simply that with the passage of time more documentation has come to light which provides more detail.  But Maxwell also states that much is still missing from the jigsaw puzzle that was Moeran's life and his hope is that his book might result in even more information surfacing - the proverbial unknown unknowns!

In retrospect, it may be seen that Self created a rod for his own back by tying his assessment of the music so closely to his beliefs about Moeran's personality and life experiences. However, as I make clear in my book, Self had no reason to doubt what he had been told by seemingly authoritative sources, and he constructed an understandable personality profile for the man based on this. If anybody reads my book carefully, they will note that I assert that improved knowledge of the composer's life and circumstances does not change a single note of what Moeran composed, but Self's assessments must be addressed and corrected since much of the knowledge on which he based them can now be shown to have been incorrect or mistaken. However, as I explain in the Preface and Introduction to the book, ultimately, it is for each listener and reader to form their own assessment. Mine should be apparent by the end of the book, but I make no claim that it is definitive.

However, the facts are the facts, and until somebody unearths more evidence or provides a better interpretation of the evidence that is there, my book is represents the current state of knowledge about Moeran's life and work.

With regard to the Symphony in G minor, I make it clear in the Preface that I did not have the space within my contractual word limit to devote equal attention to every work, and I chose to concentrate my efforts on the music that has not had so much examination hitherto. I have provided references to other studies - including Self - and suggested that readers consult those. In fact, I disagree with Self's analysis of the Symphony in G minor, based as it is on an assumption that it is a sort of requiem for the victims of the Great War. While this is a romantic and attractive notion, there is no evidence for it whatsoever, and the improved understanding of Moeran's wartime experiences and post-war life strongly argue (in my opinion) against Self's assumption. The suggestion that the musical content of some of the symphony is based on the folksong "The Shooting of his Dear" is easily refuted. However, I did not wish to fill the book with a "sensationalizing [of] the possible missteps of [my] predecessors" (in fact I do not do this at all), and so simply did not mention Self's work, other than to refer interested readers to it.

For those that do intend to read the book, I strongly recommend reading both the Preface and the Introduction first, as these place the content of the book in context.

Pohjolas Daughter

Well, I tried to get ahold of a copy of Mr. Maxwell's book through inter-library loan, but I was told that the book was too new and that I should try again in a few months.  Mind you, this was outside of the normal network of libraries that I could easily borrow from (normally "newness" isn't an issue).  Will try again maybe in the fall?  As for good news:  I was able to find and borrow a few more CDs of Moeran's music including a Chandos one which has his String Quartet No. 1, Fantasy Quartet for Oboe and Strings, and his Sonata for Violin and Piano.   :)

PD
Pohjolas Daughter

HotFXMan

Quote from: J.Z. Herrenberg on July 14, 2021, 01:07:13 PM

Geoffrey Self's book is all about the music, quite analytical, with lots of examples (100). The Symphony gets a whole chapter to itself (102-133). Perhaps Mr Maxwell didn't want to duplicate Self's analysis (or couldn't improve on it?). I get the impression from what you're saying his Moeran book is more focussed on the life.

To quote from my own Preface: "The form I have employed for the book is that of a biographical narrative, beginning with Moeran's ancestors and ending with his residual family. The narrative is interspersed with writings about the compositions presented chronologically, as far as can be determined. While I have endeavoured to at least mention everything that Moeran is known to have composed, the depth of examination necessarily varies, from a brief comment to a more extended assessment."

I did not provide an analysis of the symphony because to do it full justice would have required 8000-10,000 words, unbalancing the treatment of Moeran's corpus of work and necessitating the omission of much other material that I regarded as more essential to the completeness of the book.

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: HotFXMan on July 18, 2021, 03:27:52 AM
To quote from my own Preface: "The form I have employed for the book is that of a biographical narrative, beginning with Moeran's ancestors and ending with his residual family. The narrative is interspersed with writings about the compositions presented chronologically, as far as can be determined. While I have endeavoured to at least mention everything that Moeran is known to have composed, the depth of examination necessarily varies, from a brief comment to a more extended assessment."

I did not provide an analysis of the symphony because to do it full justice would have required 8000-10,000 words, unbalancing the treatment of Moeran's corpus of work and necessitating the omission of much other material that I regarded as more essential to the completeness of the book.
Thanks for the clarification!
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

foxandpeng

Quote from: HotFXMan on July 18, 2021, 03:27:52 AM

I did not provide an analysis of the symphony because to do it full justice would have required 8000-10,000 words, unbalancing the treatment of Moeran's corpus of work and necessitating the omission of much other material that I regarded as more essential to the completeness of the book.

You doubtless already have enough material for the next book  :)
"A quiet secluded life in the country, with the possibility of being useful to people ... then work which one hopes may be of some use; then rest, nature, books, music, love for one's neighbour — such is my idea of happiness"

Tolstoy

J

#565
Quote from: HotFXMan on July 18, 2021, 01:10:49 AM

However, the facts are the facts, and until somebody unearths more evidence or provides a better interpretation of the evidence that is there, my book is represents the current state of knowledge about Moeran's life and work.

I would agree this is (likely) incontestable, - having not yet read the book but only memorized the thesis.

vandermolen

#566
I'm also really looking forward to reading Dr Maxwell's biography as soon as I can track down a copy. This book and the new biography of Miaskovsky are high on my reading lists. I'm now playing the Sinaisky BBC recording of Moeran's Symphony. It is fine, I think, although not necessarily the greatest (Dilkes, Heward, Boult) but I was actually at the concert so, it has a special appeal to me. Moeran has fascinated me since I came across the LP of the great G minor Symphony (Dilkes/English Sinfonia) in the Harrods record department when I was working there (sadly not in the Record Dept) in my student days (c.1973). I remember playing that LP over and over again. I'm no musician but there are aspects of Moeran's life that I would like to more about including his First World War experiences, which I recall Dr Maxwell had interesting things to say about in his Ph D thesis (after Greg AKA 'J' thoughtfully sent me a link to it). Moeran's (apparently) ill-fated marriage to Piers Coetmore (who made such a moving recording, with Boult, of the Cello Concerto - yes, the playing is not absolutely technically secure, but there is a humanity and human understanding about her performance which IMO is lacking in all the more 'accomplished' more recent recordings - I find it extraordinarily moving). It seems that the sad circumstances of Moeran's death (falling into the water off the pier in Kenmare) have now been cleared up (no, he wasn't drunk as had originally been assumed - presumably another example of the 'Moeran mythology'). Moeran's emotional fragility (?) and vulnerability make him a most attractive and endearing character and I love the idea that, rather than Vaughan Williams, (another one of my heroes) who went into pubs as an academic with his notebook, Moeran went in to get drunk with the locals. On a separate note I'm glad that Dr Maxwell has posted here again, he joins a number of distinguished members (Dan Rootham, the son of Cyril, for example) whom it is great to see contributing, notwithstanding any differences of opinion. I've rambled on enough now.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

HotFXMan

Quote from: vandermolen on July 18, 2021, 12:17:03 PM
I'm also really looking forward to reading Dr Maxwell's biography as soon as I can track down a copy. This book and the new biography of Miaskovsky are high on my reading lists ...

Unfortunately, library copies will take some considerable time before they are available for loan. Indeed, it can take the British Library up to twelve months to catalogue new acquisitions, and the situation is even worse at Cambridge University Library. I would imagine that both my book and Patrick's book on Myaskovsky are unlikely to be in any public lending library any time soon. I understand that the price for the hardback editions is steep (not set by me or even in consultation with me, by the way) - with Patrick's book even more expensive than mine. However, there is an eBook version available at, I think, £19.99. Moreover, if you are a member of the British Music Society, there is a 35% discount offer on my book and Jeremy Dibble's book on Delius. Cambridge Core have the full text online, but you will need an academic affiliation to get access: https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/ernest-john-moeran/366602F7F872A264770C473D7F15C170

Extracts from the book are available on various websites, but my publisher would slaughter me if I made anything other than brief quotations available here or in any other forum. I do hope that you can eventually find a copy to read. The more people that read it, the more potential feedback I will get and the more opportunity there could be for new information or new thoughts on Moeran and his music.

vandermolen

Quote from: HotFXMan on July 18, 2021, 01:28:03 PM
Unfortunately, library copies will take some considerable time before they are available for loan. Indeed, it can take the British Library up to twelve months to catalogue new acquisitions, and the situation is even worse at Cambridge University Library. I would imagine that both my book and Patrick's book on Myaskovsky are unlikely to be in any public lending library any time soon. I understand that the price for the hardback editions is steep (not set by me or even in consultation with me, by the way) - with Patrick's book even more expensive than mine. However, there is an eBook version available at, I think, £19.99. Moreover, if you are a member of the British Music Society, there is a 35% discount offer on my book and Jeremy Dibble's book on Delius. Cambridge Core have the full text online, but you will need an academic affiliation to get access: https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/ernest-john-moeran/366602F7F872A264770C473D7F15C170

Extracts from the book are available on various websites, but my publisher would slaughter me if I made anything other than brief quotations available here or in any other forum. I do hope that you can eventually find a copy to read. The more people that read it, the more potential feedback I will get and the more opportunity there could be for new information or new thoughts on Moeran and his music.
Thank you Dr Maxwell - my local library is quite good at obtaining books, so, I will be in touch with them. The combined price of both books would be about £100 (the Moeran biography being less expensive). Gregor Tassie's earlier Miaskovsky biography is coming out in paperback soon and I hope that, sooner or later, the EJM and NYM biographies appear in paperback.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

J

Quote from: vandermolen on July 18, 2021, 01:41:34 PM
Thank you Dr Maxwell - my local library is quite good at obtaining books, so, I will be in touch with them. The combined price of both books would be about £100 (the Moeran biography being less expensive). Gregor Tassie's earlier Miaskovsky biography is coming out in paperback soon and I hope that, sooner or later, the EJM and NYM biographies appear in paperback.

Merely suspend your regular CD purchases for a month or so, Jeffrey, and the necessary funds will be in hand.

vandermolen

Quote from: J on July 18, 2021, 02:00:32 PM
Merely suspend your regular CD purchases for a month or so, Jeffrey, and the necessary funds will be in hand.
A brilliant idea Greg! Why did I not think of that?
;D
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Roasted Swan

Quote from: vandermolen on July 18, 2021, 02:07:23 PM
A brilliant idea Greg! Why did I not think of that?
;D

As long as a MONTH...... surely not  >:D

Roasted Swan

This is a random thought with nothing to do with Moeran per se.  I do LOVE a good new book.  There is such a wonderful solidity and weight to them.  And in world of digitised everything I even enjoy their simple presence.  In recent years I've made a point of buying particular books as soon as they appear - not many fit the criteria, but this Moeran book was definitely one of them.  Experience shows that they go OOP or tricky to track down very quickly.  I feel sorry for my kids when they have to deal with it all once I've shuffled off but that's before they tackle the CD's or the sheet music!

vandermolen

Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 18, 2021, 11:39:55 PM
As long as a MONTH...... surely not  >:D
OT
True - going 'Cold Turkey' will be difficult  ;D
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

vandermolen

Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 18, 2021, 11:46:30 PM
This is a random thought with nothing to do with Moeran per se.  I do LOVE a good new book.  There is such a wonderful solidity and weight to them.  And in world of digitised everything I even enjoy their simple presence.  In recent years I've made a point of buying particular books as soon as they appear - not many fit the criteria, but this Moeran book was definitely one of them.  Experience shows that they go OOP or tricky to track down very quickly.  I feel sorry for my kids when they have to deal with it all once I've shuffled off but that's before they tackle the CD's or the sheet music!
OT
I'm sure that my wife will have all my books and CDs in a skip in no time at all!
I don't know about you but when I receive a second hand CD I sometimes find carefully preserved reviews etc inside and sometimes a list of dates when the recording was listened to. I find something infinitely sad about a once treasured collection now being dispersed into the hands of an unknown person (me). Also, this will be the fate of my collection too one day - unless they all end up in a skip  :(
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: vandermolen on July 19, 2021, 12:43:35 AM
OT
I'm sure that my wife will have all my books and CDs in a skip in no time at all!
I don't know about you but when I receive a second hand CD I sometimes find carefully preserved reviews etc inside and sometimes a list of dates when the recording was listened to. I find something infinitely sad about a once treasured collection now being dispersed into the hands of an unknown person (me). Also, this will be the fate of my collection too one day - unless they all end up in a skip  :(
I believe that only once have I found a review inside a CD (once in an opera set); I have, however, several times found carefully clipped articles/reviews inside of LPs or sometimes books.  Sadly sweet, but I enjoy reading them.  And, yes, like you, believe that someone really cared about the music and their collection.

I'm also a book lover too, so you gents aren't alone there!  :)  And no skips!  Tell her to contact a reputable bookseller as some of them could be rare/oop/first editions, etc.!  If nothing else (and certainly not to belittle this point), hopefully someone else would appreciate running across them at a used bookstore and would happily pay for them and take them home!

TD,

Listened to Moeran's Serenade yesterday:  enjoyed sections of it, but on first listen (to be truthful) it didn't particularly excite/move me.  :(  Have some other music of his to check out soon too.

PD
Pohjolas Daughter

Roasted Swan

Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on July 19, 2021, 01:04:19 AM
I believe that only once have I found a review inside a CD (once in an opera set); I have, however, several times found carefully clipped articles/reviews inside of LPs or sometimes books.  Sadly sweet, but I enjoy reading them.  And, yes, like you, believe that someone really cared about the music and their collection.

I'm also a book lover too, so you gents aren't alone there!  :)  And no skips!  Tell her to contact a reputable bookseller as some of them could be rare/oop/first editions, etc.!  If nothing else (and certainly not to belittle this point), hopefully someone else would appreciate running across them at a used bookstore and would happily pay for them and take them home!

TD,

Listened to Moeran's Serenade yesterday:  enjoyed sections of it, but on first listen (to be truthful) it didn't particularly excite/move me.  :(  Have some other music of his to check out soon too.

PD

To be honest PD the Serenade is one of my less favourite Moeran pieces.  It still has lots of his characteristics in it but somehow a bit more inconsequential (I'm sure that's bad grammar!).  The Sinfonietta is wonderful as well as the other bigger pieces and the 2 Small Orchestra works - Lonely Waters and Whythorne's Shadow are jewels.

As an aside my daughter gave me a birthday card recently which read; "The more you correct my grammar, the fewer I care".

I laughed....................

J.Z. Herrenberg

Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 19, 2021, 02:14:44 AM

As an aside my daughter gave me a birthday card recently which read; "The more you correct my grammar, the fewer I care".

I laughed....................
;D
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 19, 2021, 02:14:44 AM
To be honest PD the Serenade is one of my less favourite Moeran pieces.  It still has lots of his characteristics in it but somehow a bit more inconsequential (I'm sure that's bad grammar!).  The Sinfonietta is wonderful as well as the other bigger pieces and the 2 Small Orchestra works - Lonely Waters and Whythorne's Shadow are jewels.

As an aside my daughter gave me a birthday card recently which read; "The more you correct my grammar, the fewer I care".

I laughed....................
Thank you for your comments--nice to know that I'm not totally 'off mark' (or 'alone' in my first impressions here of the Serenade).  Will listen to his Sinfonietta later today.

And thank you, also, for making me laugh this morning!  Your daughter has a good sense of humor.   ;) :)

PD
Pohjolas Daughter

vandermolen

My views on Moeran's 'Serenade' (a late work) coincide with those of RS - pleasant enough. The Symphony and Cello Concerto are by far my favourites plus there is some fine chamber music (and the Violin Concerto).

I found the comment by RS's daughter to be hilarious.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).