Musicals

[zamyrabyrd]

After watching the 1955 film of Carousel last night, I was looking for a thread in which to praise it. One of the posters on American Operas asked whether we should have one for Musicals, so here it is.

Rogers and Hammerstein admitted that this was their favorite work together. It was first produced on Broadway in 1945, based on a Hungarian story "Liliom", transplanted to a New England fishing village.
The three main enduring hits could have alone guaranteed a secure place in musical theatre: "You'll never walk alone", "June is busting out all over" and  "If I loved you" (I have a special affection for the latter) and the lilting Carousel waltz bursting out in the Overture.

A tragic plot (Billy dies in a theft attempt) and taking on social issues like wife beating and class differences broke new ground in subject matter that followed a few rather isolated but successful examples like Showboat and Porgy and Bess. "My Boy Bill" is also an innovation in this genre, taken from operatic recitatives, where Billy goes on about how he will bring up his kid but a sudden thought brings him to the possibility he may be having a daughter instead.  He concludes his rambling with an operatic ending that he will "provide for her or die".

I was fascinated by the revival of the play as described I think in Time Magazine in the late 90's. There was a picture of expanse of a sky with stars that Billy Bigelow was assigned to shine and later called to the office of his heavenly supervisor. He was told that he had a chance to go down "there" to help his very unhappy daughter. Still in character, he guffaws and boasts and even after going down to "there" even slaps her. Strangely enough, this act is taken as a proof that it is really him and this guy with a chip on his shoulder even in heaven, manages to comfort both mother and daughter on her graduation day.

The text is beautiful and full of little gems like "you are not judged up here as you were down there", when Billy (Gordon MacRae) is afraid or doubtful of going down. Also, Shirley Jones shows a different side of herself, shy but strong, than she did in "Oklahoma" also paired with "Oh What a Beautiful Morning" MacRae.

Agnes de Mille choreagraphed the dances as she did in "Oklahoma". Introducing the daughter and her conflicts through dance might have been a way of abbreviating or avoiding the need to explain. I don't know if this is a necessity or normally done in revivals.

But all in all, this is REALLY a GREAT piece of theatre and music.

ZB

[uffeviking]

Great idea to start a separate subject place for Musicals. Thank you!

Composers like Bernstein, Rogers and Hammerstein and definitely Stephen Sondheim are classical composers. Whether loved or hated, Andrew Lloyd-Webber is one of them also; don't forget he did write Cats! 

[SonicMan46]

After watching the 1955 film of Carousel last night, I was looking for a thread in which to praise it. One of the posters on American Operas asked whether we should have one for Musicals, so here it is.............

ZB - first depending on the interest of other members/posters, this could be a GREAT thread - I'm a BIG FAN of American musicals and own many film versions - will look forward to additional comments & will post accordingly - hope this one TAKES OFF!   

[zamyrabyrd]

ZB - first depending on the interest of other members/posters, this could be a GREAT thread - I'm a BIG FAN of American musicals and own many film versions - will look forward to additional comments & will post accordingly - hope this one TAKES OFF!   

I read that Carousel is supposed to be produced in London, December 2007. Oh to be in England!!!

Social relevance is a subject that comes up with theatre, musical, operatic and otherwise. The Beggar's Opera produced in 1723 poked fun at the pretentiousness and irrelevance of Italian Opera in England (still a perennial issue just about anywhere almost 300 years later!). So here is where the fun all started:

http://www.umich.edu/~ece/student_projects/beggars_opera/music.html

"In 1728, the first performance of John Gay's The Beggar's Opera attracted the acclaim and attention of the popular audience in England. The first run of the performance lasted 62 nights! Today, this sounds like a lot, but in the 18th century, it was an unprecedented touchstone. Later, the opera was performed internationally in Dublin, Glasgow, Jamaica and New York. In 1750, The Beggar's Opera was one of the earliest musical comedies produced in America; appropriately, it was produced in New York, which today is the mecca of musical comedy.

The opera launched the popularity of a new form of stage entertainment, the ballad opera. The audience for the ballad opera, unlike opera's noble and upper-class following, included people from the lower class, middle class, and upper class.Londoners loved the realism and satire in the ballad opera; they left the theater talking about it and singing the familiar tunes. The book trade was also stimulated because of its controversial subject matter and satire. Evidence of its popularity in the 18th century, The Beggar's Opera was performed every year of the 18th century after 1728.

The Satire and Controversy

The Beggar's Opera was a double satire of the Italian opera tradition and of the political corruption of incumbent Prime Minister Sir Robert Walpole and his government. Gay mocked the Italian opera tradition in many ways:

•   Gay chose popular simple tunes to mock what many British believed to be the overly virtuousic and artificial airs of Italian opera.
•   The composer disposed of recitative altogether in favor of spoken dialogue.
•   Gay's main characters are thieves and bawds, rather than the heroes and kings of Italian opera.
•   Finally, he makes fun of the often-disliked Italian divas. The year before John Gay's opera premiered, the two leading prima donnas in London, Francesca Cuzzoni and Faustina Bordoni, were well known to be enemies. In 1727, their rivalry escalated to a fight on stage; the two divas scratched and pulled out each other's hair! The rivalry between these ladies inspired Gay's leading female characters, Polly Peachum and Lucy Lockit, and their quarreling scenes.

The ballad opera not only made fun of Italian opera, but also provided a new popularity for native music that the masses knew and enjoyed."

[zamyrabyrd]

"An act hard to follow", taken from Vaudeville would be a good description of musicals made into movies.
Once a film "fixes" an interpretation, it's hard to conceive of, for instance: The Sound of Music,
The King and I, Oklahoma, My Fair Lady, and South Pacific without referring to the celluloid version. Somehow this phenomenon (that is, if you agree to it) seems more prominent in popular music where the timbre of the instruments, the voice and personality of the singer(s) are imprinted on the music. It's hard to imagine Dr. Pepper's Lonely Heart's Club Band done in any other way except the original recording. Orchestras trot out Beatles every now and then for "light classics", but they usually sounds like fish out of water.

By comparison, operas are really difficult to capture on film, having more of an interchangeable quality regarding singing roles. Once Julie Andrews is Maria it's hard to see someone else in that role. My Fair Lady was acted by her a few years before Audrey Hepburn, so the film appearing later endures and not so much the former recording. The same with South Pacific done by Mary Martin on Broadway.

The advantage of movies, of course, is to have REAL hills that are alive, horses in Oklahoma and My Fair Lady, a real river for the Showboat to float on, etc. Although Porgy and Bess is not strictly a musical, more an opera, the staged version captured on film with Willard White, was great but missing some local color.

I'm sitting here trying to remember if there is ANY definitive visually recorded version of an opera and I can't think of one. People here may have different opinions. The reason may be that opera MIGHT be more about music and musicals are more of a combined experience.

In other words, you can act lousy but sing well and still get away with it, not look the part, etc. THIS would not work in musical theatre.

ZB

[jochanaan]

...The year before John Gay's opera premiered, the two leading prima donnas in London, Francesca Cuzzoni and Faustina Bordoni, were well known to be enemies. In 1727, their rivalry escalated to a fight on stage; the two divas scratched and pulled out each other's hair!...

That was probably before George Frideric Handel hung La Cuzzoni out the window to dry.

[brpaulandrew]

The movie musical that grabbed me when I was in high school was West Side Story. I've seen the musicall a couple of times but the movie holds up well. Bernstein and Sondheim wrote a great score and Johnny Green and his movie studio orchestra do an excellent job.

I didn't know at the time that practically no one sang their own role. Marni Nixon for Wood is perfectly understandable but a "ghost" for Rita Moreno? THe CD has additional music omitted from the LP.
Recommended.

As far as operas on film, Zeffrelli's Traviata and Othelo both hold up well.

Br. Paul Andrew

[Josquin des Prez]

Musicals = Satan. That is all.

[zamyrabyrd]

The movie musical that grabbed me when I was in high school was West Side Story. I've seen the musical a couple of times but the movie holds up well. Bernstein and Sondheim wrote a great score and Johnny Green and his movie studio orchestra do an excellent job.

Bernstein even to the end of his life was disappointed he didn't write the Great American Opera. But why anyway should the conventions of European Opera over the previous centuries have to apply to the New World?
West Side Story is a great and more importantly honest achievement, not artificial or irrelevant and certainly not satanic (?).

I didn't know at the time that practically no one sang their own role. Marni Nixon for Wood is perfectly understandable but a "ghost" for Rita Moreno? THe CD has additional music omitted from the LP.Recommended.

Marni did a few other films sight unseen, even My Fair Lady. But you can actually see what she looked like in the "Young People's" series by Bernstein singing, I seem to remember, one of the Songs from the Auvergne, arranged by Cantaloube. I thought Rita Moreno was a singer and dancer and that was her own voice(?) in the film.

As far as operas on film, Zeffrelli's Traviata and Othello both hold up well.
Br. Paul Andrew

Yes, I agree but I was thinking of "definitive" visual versions by which other attempts are simply defeated even before they start. West Side Story on film is IT. I thought about this more after writing the post and I really believe the reason is in opera music trumps above all, not visuals. So opera may have many different recordings and various different singers over decades and even centuries and still not exhuast all its musical possibilities.

ZB

[zamyrabyrd]

Musicals = Satan. That is all.

Come now, you never enjoyed a musical?
Or is enjoyment satanic?

ZB

[bricon]

I was thinking of "definitive" visual versions by which other attempts are simply defeated even before they start. West Side Story on film is IT. I thought about this more after writing the post and I really believe the reason is in opera music trumps above all, not visuals.

Have you ever attended a "live" performance of WSS?

The movie version pales in comparison; WSS is one of the greatest works ever created for the lyric theatre.

[zamyrabyrd]

That was probably before George Frideric Handel hung La Cuzzoni out the window to dry.

Really? Don't know if it was before or after, but with all due respect-- a German composer in England writing and staging operas in Italian??? It's interesting, though, to trace the history of opera seria .
Serious subjects allegedly needed larger than life characters: kings, queens, gods, etc., in a remote environment and a distant, even mythological time, communicating in a foreign language.
Probably dating from Mozart is the bifurcation of stock formulas (da capo arias) in opera seria and the freer forms of opera buffa, all in one composer!!

ZB

[zamyrabyrd]

Have you ever attended a "live" performance of WSS?

The movie version pales in comparison; WSS is one of the greatest works ever created for the lyric theatre.

That's not what I meant. I said ON FILM, an act hard to follow, NOT ON STAGE.

ZB

[bricon]

That's not what I meant. I said ON FILM, an act hard to follow, NOT ON STAGE.

Sorry, I mis-understood your post.

As far as your criteria are concerned; I think that Oliver is probably the most accomplished movie version of a stage musical - FWIW.

[zamyrabyrd]

Sorry, I mis-understood your post.

As far as your criteria are concerned; I think that Oliver is probably the most accomplished movie version of a stage musical - FWIW.

Loved the film: "Where--ere--ere is love?", "Consider yourself AS IN!!" "You gotta pick a pocket or two"...
Loved the brinkmanship at the end (reminds one of Annie or the other way round).

ZB

[brpaulandrew]

OK, now that you've got me going...

If it's a sin, I still love musicals and movie musicals.

How about Fiddler on the Roof. Isaac Stern at the violin, Topal as Tevye, and I think John Williams did the musical adaption with some great voices and choral work. Excellent cinematography and  directing by Norman Jewison.

I've seen the musical twice but one can watch the movie just about any time with a rental.

Br. Paul Andrew

[Tsaraslondon]

I think the reason that so many musicals have become classic films, is that filmmakers are more likely to adapt the original to suit the medium of film. With opera, there is generally more respect for the score. In other words, nobody would dream of adapting or rewriting bits of the score to suit the new medium of film. There was an outcry when Zeffirelli made cuts in La Traviata and Otello, though they are arguably two of the most successful filmed operas made. And, of course, Zeffirelli was a successful director both on stage and film. Usually, of course, when making a film of an opera, the composer is no longer around to agree to certain details being changed, whereas, with filmed musicals, the composer and librettist are still part of the creative process, which is why we are more likely to end up with something nearer definitive, though often I find the original more satisfying.
Only recently, I went to the recent West End revival of The Sound of Music, and, though the decidedly mediocre Connie Reeves was no match for the wonderful Julie Andrews, and we miss the spectacular Austrian scenery, I found the stage musical a much more satisfying work than the film. Because so many of the cuts made for the film involved the political back drop for the story, the film became a much more saccharine and sentimental piece than the original stage show.

[yashin]

Anything by Rogers and Hart will do me fine.  Listen to Dawn Upshaw on her Rogers and Hart disc.  It is really terrific stuff.  Real Sunday morning music.

[jochanaan]

...I think John Williams did the musical adaption with some great voices and choral work...

I thought it was Jerry Goldsmith?

Trivia: Who played the violin solos in Schindler's List?

[Bogey]

I thought it was Jerry Goldsmith?

Trivia: Who played the violin solos in Schindler's List?

Perlman.

Trivia: Who played the clarinet solos?