Musicals

[The new erato]

I usually cannot stand musical, finding the vast majority to be tacky, schlocky, sentimental and musically worthless. And playing cello in most theatre orchestras is about as depressing as it gets... when they actually write vibrato in your part at certain points (as they do in Les Miserables for instance) you just wonder what kind of monkey is writing this trash.

There are three major exceptions for me - Bernstein's West Side Story and Candide and Weill's Threepenny opera. Are there any that are as musically good as these three masterpieces?

I know those 3; and in my opinion Showboat is every bit their equal.

[Tsaraslondon]

I usually cannot stand musicals, finding the vast majority to be tacky, schlocky, mawkish and musically worthless. And playing cello in most theatre orchestras is about as depressing as it gets... when they actually write vibrato in your part at certain points (as they do in Les Miserables for instance) you just wonder what kind of monkey is writing this trash.

There are three major exceptions for me - Bernstein's West Side Story and Candide and Weill's Threepenny opera. Are there any that are as musically good as these three masterpieces?

Most anything Sondheim wrote is worth looking at, but try, for starters, A Little Night Music (every musical number in triple or compound time), Sweeney Todd, not in the film version, but it's much more operatic stage version, and Sunday in the Park with George.

[SonicMan46]

I usually cannot stand musicals, finding the vast majority to be tacky, schlocky, mawkish and musically worthless. And playing cello in most theatre orchestras is about as depressing as it gets...

Guido - boy, I can't relate to that attitude - my wife & I are absolutely in love w/ musicals and have been viewing them in all forms (Broadway, locally, video, etc.) since the late 1960s - glad that people can have different opinions and choices - 

[Mark G. Simon]

I usually cannot stand musicals, finding the vast majority to be tacky, schlocky, mawkish and musically worthless. And playing cello in most theatre orchestras is about as depressing as it gets... when they actually write vibrato in your part at certain points (as they do in Les Miserables for instance) you just wonder what kind of monkey is writing this trash.

There are three major exceptions for me - Bernstein's West Side Story and Candide and Weill's Threepenny opera. Are there any that are as musically good as these three masterpieces?

Try Kurt Weill's Lady in the Dark. All the music in the show is gathered into 3 extended dream sequences, 15-20 minutes each, so there's an operatic continuity, and the music is constantly hinting at the tune which finally emerges as "My Ship". It's an excellent score, and the lyrics by Ira Gershwin are, as to be expected, clever and snappy.

[The new erato]

There are three major exceptions for me - Bernstein's West Side Story and Candide and Weill's Threepenny opera. Are there any that are as musically good as these three masterpieces?

Showboat is easily the equal of all those three.

[Tsaraslondon]

Try Kurt Weill's Lady in the Dark.

I'd also try Kurt Weil's Street Scene, almost operatic in conception.

[Guido]

Thanks all for these recommendations - I will follow them all up in due course. On a side note about Weill - I recently heard his thrid Symphony for the first time - great piece.

Sonicman - I agree  - each to their own!

[The new erato]

Thanks all for these recommendations - I will follow them all up in due course. On a side note about Weill - I recently heard his thrid Symphony for the first time - great piece.

Sonicman - I agree  - each to their own!

I thought he only wrote two?

[Guido]

I thought he only wrote two?

Sorry yes, I meant second.

[Roasted Swan]

Musical Theatre is really a neglected genre on this forum!  No posts on this thread since 2009.  Of course there are a lot of junk shows out there but the best are brilliant - whether comic, dramatic or simply entertaining.  And there are a lot of really good performers in the genre too.

This post prompted by my buying this set just the other day;



This early Sondheim show is - by common consent - flawed, with folk struggling to understand the convoluted plot amongst other things. Originally staged in 1964 to quote the liner; "a ratings-obsessed predatory, unhinged megalomaniac in office, with a pandering administration corrupt and desperate, most citizens reliant on religion over science, a few in restless protest, crisis profiteering, failed impeachments, voter tampering, smear campaigns, fake news...." Prescient anyone?

So for anyone who thinks Musical Theatre is "just" frothy nonsense perhaps check out a few of the very best.  They might not be box-office hits (check out Parade for example) but there is music and drama of real enduring worth there if you are willing to look.

Going back to this recording - for no given reason, the bulk of it was recorded as long ago as 1997 - Julia McKenzie and Maria Friedman just superb - but it was not finally released until 2020.  Its an impressive achievement.

[brewski]

Thanks, @Roasted Swan, for posting this. I love this show, even if it doesn't reach the heights of A Little Night Music, Sweeney Todd, or Merrily We Roll Along. The score has many gems, and yes, the story — wacky and convoluted as it is — definitely prescient.

In 2022 I heard a concert version at Carnegie Hall. Can't say it quite did the show justice, but a lot of the brilliance came through anyway.

Glad to know of this recording, which I somehow missed! Maria Friedman has been one of Sondheim's strongest advocates over the last few years. (Also, great cover art.)

[Roasted Swan]

Thanks, @Roasted Swan, for posting this. I love this show, even if it doesn't reach the heights of A Little Night Music, Sweeney Todd, or Merrily We Roll Along. The score has many gems, and yes, the story — wacky and convoluted as it is — definitely prescient.

In 2022 I heard a concert version at Carnegie Hall. Can't say it quite did the show justice, but a lot of the brilliance came through anyway.

Glad to know of this recording, which I somehow missed! Maria Friedman has been one of Sondheim's strongest advocates over the last few years. (Also, great cover art.)

Hurrah - more MT fans!  Not just Maria Friedman - who is predictably brilliant but the great Julia McKenzie.  Given this was recorded in the late 90's (supervised by Sondheim himself) all the performers are in their vocal prime.  It is also absolutely complete and features the original orchestrations.  As such - it has to be considered the reference recording.  Of course other versions/performances are very fine (in part at least) but this is one to have for sure.

On a tangent - the producer of this John Yap made a recording at Abbey Road of a complete "A Little Night Music" based on a Chichester Festival Theatre Production from the late 80's that I played on.  A couple of years back he released the complete video (recorded in the famous Studio 2 at Abbey Road) of those sessions - this is the FULL show musically which we recorded 'live'.  Maria Friedman joined the cast to play the maid (singing the brilliant "Miller's Son").  John  Owen Edwards who conducts "Anyone" also conducts this Night Musc and did a new set of "Chamber" orchestrations which I think were excellent.  But then I'm biased because I played in the theatre production and on this video.  Given it was made over 35 years ago we all look so young!!!!

[Madiel]

As previously mentioned elsewhere, I completely adore Hadestown.



I didn't really consider, until someone pointed it out to me, that it's quite unusual in being almost entirely sung through. To the extent that there's dialogue it's mostly during a song with the music continuing underneath.

One benefit of this is that the cast recording does give you pretty close to the entire show. Although there are points where lacking any visuals is a slight detriment.

[San Antone]

I have studied and loved musicals for a long time, and these are some of the ones I consider among the best of the genre. One work per composer/team but asterisk(s) will reference others I consider representing the highest examples of the genre.

Gershwin - Porgy & Bess (operatic, but also with elements of musical style)
Rodgers/Hammerstein* - Carousel
Lerner/Loewe** - My Fair Lady
Kander/Ebb*** - Cabaret
Bock/Harnick - Fiddler on the Roof
Stephen Sondheim**** - Sweeney Todd (also operatic)
Jerry Herman****** - Hello Dolly!

* Oklahoma!; South Pacific
** Camelot
*** Chicago; Fosse
**** West Side Story (Bernstein); Gypsy (Styne); Company; Follies; Passion
***** Mame

[brewski]

Hurrah - more MT fans!  Not just Maria Friedman - who is predictably brilliant but the great Julia McKenzie.  Given this was recorded in the late 90's (supervised by Sondheim himself) all the performers are in their vocal prime.  It is also absolutely complete and features the original orchestrations.  As such - it has to be considered the reference recording.  Of course other versions/performances are very fine (in part at least) but this is one to have for sure.

On a tangent - the producer of this John Yap made a recording at Abbey Road of a complete "A Little Night Music" based on a Chichester Festival Theatre Production from the late 80's that I played on.  A couple of years back he released the complete video (recorded in the famous Studio 2 at Abbey Road) of those sessions - this is the FULL show musically which we recorded 'live'.  Maria Friedman joined the cast to play the maid (singing the brilliant "Miller's Son").  John  Owen Edwards who conducts "Anyone" also conducts this Night Musc and did a new set of "Chamber" orchestrations which I think were excellent.  But then I'm biased because I played in the theatre production and on this video.  Given it was made over 35 years ago we all look so young!!!!

Thank you for citing this, and wow, how cool that you were in this production! I started watching a few minutes ago and had to turn it off for now (to get some work done). But will definitely delve into it later. During the first few minutes, I was reminded of what a ravishing score it is. Yes, "Send in the Clowns" is what people know best, but the whole score is fantastic.

PS, speaking of "The Miller's Son," Elizabeth Stanley sang it as one of the high points of the 90th birthday tribute to him 5 years ago, one of the great things filmed during the pandemic, which I'm happy to see is still available.

[brewski]

I have studied and loved musicals for a long time, and these are some of the ones I consider among the best of the genre. One work per composer/team but asterisk(s) will reference others I consider representing the highest examples of the genre.

Gershwin - Porgy & Bess (operatic, but also with elements of musical style)
Rodgers/Hammerstein* - Carousel
Lerner/Loewe** - My Fair Lady
Kander/Ebb*** - Cabaret
Bock/Harnick - Fiddler on the Roof
Stephen Sondheim**** - Sweeney Todd (also operatic)
Jerry Herman****** - Hello Dolly!

* Oklahoma!; South Pacific
** Camelot
*** Chicago; Fosse
**** West Side Story (Bernstein); Gypsy (Styne); Company; Follies; Passion
***** Mame

An excellent list. I adore Sondheim, but sometimes Cabaret is my favorite. The film version is astounding.