Five important pre-1980 composers that you easily could live without

[Mandryka]

Sure.

I've just listened to bk 3 in the Gorus Années - it's very good, in a suite which I think is quite difficult to make work for me. Thanks

[Brian]

Unfortunate that Bach never wrote solo works for the contrabassoon.

We now have something close: an arrangement of the keyboard Partita No. 2 for eight bassoons, recorded by one bassoon player on eight tracks. There are sound samples for the curious 

[Todd]

We now have something close: an arrangement of the keyboard Partita No. 2 for eight bassoons, recorded by one bassoon player on eight tracks. There are sound samples for the curious 

And you can get that bad boy in 24 bit sound!

[vandermolen]

I could do without Vieuxtemps, but I don't think that he's an especially important composer.

[prémont]

Well, I was going to point out that there is no obligation to start living with music that you've been just fine living without. There is plenty of other music to live with.

A good point. Sometimes I feel it's embarrassing that I can easily do without opera and serial music, but what the heck .. I have to hurry if I'm going to hear all the renaissance music and baroque music I want, and then there's no time for the rest.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Hmmmm..."major"?

Well maybe:

I was going to go with Berlioz, but am starting to rethink that 

I can think of minor ones that I've attempted to like, but for the most part the ball has yet to drop:

Bantock
Bax (though I recall liking, I believe it was "November Woods")

Trying to rack my brain regarding other ones?  Often I find that I'll at least like a few works my major composers.
Like Holst for instance (I should revisit, I know).

There's a bunch of 1960's '70's experimental/techno music that does nothing for me personally, but I do understand that there were a number of composers who helped to create the groundwork (or inspire) later composers, so we have much to thank them for their explorations and creations.  Still, I try to keep an open mind.  Lately, I've been having fun exploring Penderecki and appreciate his evolution and changes in his music over the years.

Will let you know when I think of others.

...and apologies to my British friends!

PD

[Symphonic Addict]

Poor Bax, at least some of us do support him! 

I could do a new list with baroque composers:

Rameau, F. Couperin, Telemann, Lully and Purcell.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Poor Bax, at least some of us do support him! 

I could do a new list with baroque composers:

Rameau, F. Couperin, Telemann, Lully and Purcell.

There's much of Purcell that I don't know, but I must admit that I adore his opera Dido and Aeneas.  Do you know that one?  Or, and perhaps I'm remembering incorrectly, you're not much into opera?

I very seldom listen to Rameau, Couperin and Telemann myself--particularly these days.

PD

[Symphonic Addict]

There's much of Purcell that I don't know, but I must admit that I adore his opera Dido and Aeneas.  Do you know that one?  Or, and perhaps I'm remembering incorrectly, you're not much into opera?

I very seldom listen to Rameau, Couperin and Telemann myself--particularly these days.

PD

No, I don't, but I do intend to give it a spin in the near future. And I'm much more into opera lately, so there's hope for that piece. 

[Florestan]

No, I don't, but I do intend to give it a spin in the near future. And I'm much more into opera lately, so there's hope for that piece. 

There might also be hope for Rameau's Les Indes galantes, then. 

[Jo498]

At least the suite or at least the Rondeau pour les sauvages or whatever this is called. I would rarely listen to a complete French baroque opera but the suites are great fun.
And I really like Purcell, especially Dido and even the bizarre semi-operas with great music that has little to do with the actual action. Although I have seen an entertaining staging of King Arthur a few years ago (it was rather accidental, I visited a friend in Berlin and that was the only opera running or with affordable tickets or he had not already seen at that weekend).

[Symphonic Addict]

There might also be hope for Rameau's Les Indes galantes, then. 

I find his musical aesthetics much less appealing, I'm afraid.

[Cato]

Well, I must have missed this topic back in January, because that was during my return to teaching, after I had tried to retire in June 2021.

I just now skimmed through all the previous pages and was pleasantly struck by the absence of three composers in the discussion: Bartok, Scriabin, and Stravinsky.

Certainly it is my impression that the enthusiasm for Bartok and Stravinsky, which I experienced in the 1960's and beyond, has waned.  Stravinsky, of course, was still alive into the 1970's and producing new works, although their reception usually included a lamentation about the malign influence of Arnold Schoenberg and Robert Craft on the composer!

Bartok seemed to be influential for a while, (exotic folk-scales greet a Bachian technique), but (again, it is my impression) it seems that his star has dimmed these days, although it was interesting to find this from a Chinese School of Music:

A Hungarian composer, pianist, ethnomusicologist, and teacher, Béla Bartók is considered one of the most important composers of the 20th century. Bartók represents a group of "nationalist" composers yet broadened the definition of nationalism by fusion with his own modernism. Profoundly influenced by the folk music of Hungary, Romania, and other nations, he successfully escaped traditional major/minor tonality. The use of folk materials in his compositions is very accessible to the audience, especially Chinese audiences.

Together with his like-minded contemporary Zoltán Kodály, Bartók initiated an extensive research and capture and transcribed folk and peasant melodies of Magyar, Slovak and Romanian language regions. The use of those folk materials in his works shows his contemporaries and future generations how to create a synthesis with tradition and modernism.

How do the selected works from the other composers in the festival contribute to Bartók's legacy? Kodály's music illustrates how the two contemporaries were using a very similar compositional approach yet produced two different sound sonorities: Kodály being a little more conservative than Bartók in its tonal and harmonic language. The music of his future generations shows us how those composers were "struggling" to stand on the giant's shoulders and strived to find their own voices.

https://www.tianjinjuilliard.edu.cn/news/2021/01/bartok-and-his-legacy


Scriabin influenced an array of composers from the microtonalist Wyschnegradsky through Protopopov and the Tcherepnin's to Alexander Nemtin and Vyacheslav Ovchinnikov.  Composer and former GMG member Luke Ottevanger produced some wonderfully original works showing Scriabin's influence.


And what has happened with Stravinsky?  In the 20th Century he vied with Arnold Schoenberg for dominance in the world of contemporary Classical Music.  Neo-Classicism was more popular with audiences.  However, Schoenberg famously was awarded a posthumous victory, when Stravinsky began to compose with "12 notes" in the 1950's.


So, the question is: who can live without Bartok, Scriabin, and/or Stravinsky?

Are they really essential to our members?  0:)

[Florestan]

who can live without Bartok, Scriabin, and/or Stravinsky?

In the last two years I listened to Scriabin once (voluntarily), to Bartok once (involuntarily, the 2nd PC was being played on my car radio) and to Stravinsky not at all.

Are they really essential to our members?  0:)

Not to me. Anyway, of the three I prefer Bartok. I like early Scriabin and Stravinsky's Petrushka and L'oiseau de feu, though.

[Jo498]

I think in the case of Stravinsky there has been a large gap between a moderate number of very popular works and the rest.

Bartok is by far my favorite 20th century composer (unless one counts Mahler) and I don't think his reputation has decreased.

Scriabin was never that popular, I believe. Even the better known piano sonatas seem more for "insiders", even compared to maybe in theory more "modern" piano music like Prokofievs. No comparison at all to Ravel or Debussy in popularity. I never got into Scriabin and could easily live without his music, but admittedly I probably just didn't spent enough time with his music (I do have the piano sonatas, some other piano works and the symphonies/tone poems).

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Well, I must have missed this topic back in January, because that was during my return to teaching, after I had tried to retire in June 2021.

I just now skimmed through all the previous pages and was pleasantly struck by the absence of three composers in the discussion: Bartok, Scriabin, and Stravinsky....


So, the question is: who can live without Bartok, Scriabin, and/or Stravinsky?

Are they really essential to our members?  0:)

Bartok (and Kodaly):  Vital to me!  I love listening to his Hungarian folk influenced music!  Stravinsky:  Enjoy, but don't play it often.  Need to do some more explorations there.  And as for Scriabin:  Only have a few of his piano sonatas.  Should try and explore more.

Hope that you are enjoying teaching again?

PD

[Cato]

Bartok (and Kodaly):  Vital to me!  I love listening to his Hungarian folk influenced music!  Stravinsky:  Enjoy, but don't play it often.  Need to do some more explorations there.  And as for Scriabin:  Only have a few of his piano sonatas.  Should try and explore more.

Hope that you are enjoying teaching again?

PD

No, I am retired from teaching again at the moment: my reference to returning to teaching above was to my resurrection in January through June of this year: Mrs. Cato thinks that I have helped my school enough now!  My successor is in fact a young lady, c. 30 years old, with a Ph.D. in Latin, who has never taught such young students, only college students!

She wrote to me a few weeks ago: "I'm sorry that I have not written earlier, but...this job is exhausting!"      0:)

Yes, cracking the whip above recalcitrant 11-13 year-old students takes energy!     She did say that it was "a good kind of exhaustion," in that the kids are learning and seem enthusiastic enough, in general.

Yes, give Scriabin another chance!  The sonatas from #5 through 10 are the ones beloved by us Scriabinistas!     The symphonies are all fascinating and show a quickly maturing voice, maturation by leaps rather than a nice upward curve.

I think in the case of Stravinsky there has been a large gap between a moderate number of very popular works and the rest.

Bartok is by far my favorite 20th century composer (unless one counts Mahler) and I don't think his reputation has decreased.

Scriabin was never that popular, I believe. Even the better known piano sonatas seem more for "insiders", even compared to maybe in theory more "modern" piano music like Prokofiev's. No comparison at all to Ravel or Debussy in popularity. I never got into Scriabin and could easily live without his music, but admittedly I probably just didn't spent enough time with his music (I do have the piano sonatas, some other piano works and the symphonies/tone poems).

It is interesting that THE GREAT DEBATE in 20th-century classical music centered on Schoenberg vs. Stravinsky.  Certainly you had Bartok (and Hindemith ) showing alternate paths, although one could say that Bartok was a branch of Neo-Classicism (one could also, however, not say that).  0:)

Yes, as I advised above, revisit Scriabin's  works.  To paraphrase John Lennon, "All we are aaaaaskiiiing, is give Scriabin a chance!"   

In the last two years I listened to Scriabin once (voluntarily), to Bartok once (involuntarily, the 2nd PC was being played on my car radio) and to Stravinsky not at all.

Not to me. Anyway, of the three I prefer Bartok. I like early Scriabin and Stravinsky's Petrushka and L'oiseau de feu, though.

Thanks, Florestan!  You have at least dipped your toes into the water!   

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Yes, give Scriabin another chance!  The sonatas from #5 through 10 are the ones beloved by us Scriabinistas!     The symphonies are all fascinating and show a quickly maturing voice, maturation by leaps rather than a nice upward curve.

Yes, as I advised above, revisit Scriabin's  works.  To paraphrase John Lennon, "All we are aaaaaskiiiing, is give Scriabin a chance!"   

Glad that you are back at work retiring! 

And, boooooo!

And thank you for the suggestions; back on the list he goes!

PD

[Cato]

To paraphrase John Lennon, "All we are aaaaaskiiiing, is give Scriabin a chance!"   

And, boooooo!

I used the joke sometime ago with a different composer, and a member replied: "Oh no!  Now that won't leave my head!" 

I suppose it is a dangerous pun to shoot at people!   

[SimonNZ]

Driving to work today Korngold's Violin Concerto was playing on the radio and it occurred to me that every time I've heard Korngold, including today, I've never been left wanting to hear more.