Downsizing to the Essentials

[Spotted Horses]

Once CDs have been ripped, there are only two ethical alternatives - keep them, or destroy them.  Donating them is just piracy - and to make matters worse you involve the recipient too.

Well, yes, there's that too.

[Jo498]

Once CDs have been ripped, there are only two ethical alternatives - keep them, or destroy them.  Donating them is just piracy - and to make matters worse you involve the recipient too.

This might be the ethical situation but unlike for software, where copies have to be destroyed, for music the *legal* situation apparently differs between countries. When such a discussion arose about 10 years ago, I did quite a bit of reading on the topic and in Germany it is perfectly legal to sell or donate CDs and keep private copies of the music. You cannot *sell* copies, of course. It might be fishy or a loophole, especially if one does this intentionally and systematically but the legal situation seemed pretty clear.

[Symphonic Addict]

Have you ever considered downsizing your library only to the stuff you consider essential (from your on point of view, of course) and get rid of, or at least never or very rarely listen to, anything else? Do you agree in principle with the concept? If yes, what would that stuff be? If no, why?

For me "ESSENTIAL" simply is too much, and few is not enough. I can't answer this, sorry! 

[Harry]

I did the culling already and maybe in time a few will be added, but still there are 4000+ essential CD'S. I gave all those CD'S away, no way one could sell them these days.
I will try to buy as little as I can, and will certainly  not buy multiple sets with the same music, Tchaikovsky excepted.

[Jo498]

Well, I'm not in Germany (nor the US, come to that), and you are right that different jurisdictions can see things in wildly different ways.
Here's what seems to be true for the US...and I'm willing to bet that the exact same situation prevails in the UK, too (especially now as we're anxious for a free trade deal, which means RIAA will want to have its voice heard!).

Of course, I'm skipping over the High Court decision that made even ripping CDs in the UK illegal in 2015!

Interesting that it was an EU directive that the High Court struck down. An EU directive that, according to that news report, "made it legal to make back-ups for personal use". I don't know how you can claim your rip is a backup of something when the original is no longer in your possession, is my point -and that would seem to be the EU (and thus German) position. I'd definitely appreciate a German law citation/reference on the matter, though.

According to the article below this does not need to be EU-uniform. Unfortunately, both the article and most of what I remember mostly focussed on "private copies" (that are not strictly only "back up copies") and the debate in the early 2000s, ca. 15 years ago. Back then it was mostly about giving private copies to friends which was judged to be within the rights of fair use in small numbers (and strictly uncommercial). As I said, because of debates in German fora at that time where people insisted that keeping copies was illegal I read this up on several juristic sites and the case seemed surprisingly clear, that it was in fact legal or maybe a loophole. Maybe because it seems to simply follow from the right to make a few private copies that you can even give one to a friend. When you later decide to sell the original, who is to forbid your friend to gave the burned copy back to you?

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privatkopie

I certainly think it would be fishy and unethical to do this with 100s or 1000s of disc, especially if one bought stuff intentionally to "rip and sell". Although to put it in perspective, one would usually lose money, because used (even like new) discs are so cheap, so it is hardly a business model.

[71 dB]

So they could throw them in the garbage for me?

One used CD I bought online is from the New York Public Library (Mid-Manhattan Branch Library, 455 Fifth Avenue, New York, NY 10016). This CD wasn't thrown in the garbage. It was sold away for reasons I don't know.

[Florestan]

My idea of downsizing is to stop getting any new CD or boxset at all. But I can't do it. The pile of CDs or boxsets that I still have to listen to is growing at an alarming pace. I mean, do I really need another cycle of Mozart's PCs given that I haven't yet listened to all the ones I already have? Do I really need another set of Chopin's complete works given that ditto? Do I really need another set of Schubert's piano sonatas, ditto?

Well, heck, yes I do.   

And at least I don't have to worry about space. I went full digital a few years ago and never looked back. My musical library is stored on three laptops and two external HDDs which can easily be contained in a briefcase. I stored my physical CDs and LPs in the attic of my in-laws house a few years ago and never wiped the dust off them. 

[MusicTurner]

One used CD I bought online is from the New York Public Library (Mid-Manhattan Branch Library, 455 Fifth Avenue, New York, NY 10016). This CD wasn't thrown in the garbage. It was sold away for reasons I don't know.

Here in DK, official libraries and even the Danish National Radio Broadcast started selling their LP collections decades ago, now it has been their CDs as well, for many years. The materials have very prominent registration labels, making them much less attractive, in spite of the very low prices (say 0.6 - 1.2 Euros). I bought a few, maybe 15-20 years ago, but stopped, and don't follow that market any longer. There's probably only little left.

[Spotted Horses]

One used CD I bought online is from the New York Public Library (Mid-Manhattan Branch Library, 455 Fifth Avenue, New York, NY 10016). This CD wasn't thrown in the garbage. It was sold away for reasons I don't know.

Ah, the main branch. I used to walk past it all the time, it is just down the block from Grand Central Terminal. The one with the two enormous statues of lions out front.

Good that they had the wherewithal to sell them. My local library didn't want them. .

[Rinaldo]

Once CDs have been ripped, there are only two ethical alternatives - keep them, or destroy them.  Donating them is just piracy - and to make matters worse you involve the recipient too.

I'd wager it would be pretty hard to find a person in 2022 who gives a damn. And ethically this seems fine to me. Ripping and then selling, that's a different story, but donating? C'mon.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Here in DK, official libraries and even the Danish National Radio Broadcast started selling their LP collections decades ago, now it has been their CDs as well, for many years. The materials have very prominent registration labels, making them much less attractive, in spite of the very low prices (say 0.6 - 1.2 Euros). I bought a few, maybe 15-20 years ago, but stopped, and don't follow that market any longer. There's probably only little left.

Buying ex-libris LPs can be a real crap shot.  Normally, the popular ones got lots of play and weren't, shall we say, always treated the best?

My local library accepts donations of books, magazines, DVDs and CDs; they then sell them (at very modest prices).  The monies go towards helping purchase new acquisitions.

PD

[MusicTurner]

Buying ex-libris LPs can be a real crap shot.  Normally, the popular ones got lots of play and weren't, shall we say, always treated the best?

My local library accepts donations of books, magazines, DVDs and CDs; they then sell them (at very modest prices).  The monies go towards helping purchase new acquisitions.

PD

Totally agree, one would really have to inspect the LPs, also the classical ones ... I've got less than a dozen of them, I think. It's interesting that your libraries also function a bit like antiquarians - it doesn't happen here, where, generally, most libraries have downsized the old media and books, now relying more on social events, internet cafes, and the possibility to reserve any materials from other libraries throughout the country (which is free, though). But still, a lot of the exhibited material appears rather random and even poor. I used to frequent them a real lot, but now I've got my own stuff in stead. Of course, there are still also specialized, high-quality research libraries, and a few, better equipped central ones.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Totally agree, one would really have to inspect the LPs, also the classical ones ... I've got less than a dozen of them, I think. It's interesting that your libraries also function a bit like antiquarians - it doesn't happen here, where, generally, most libraries have downsized the old media and books, now relying more on social events, internet cafes, and the possibility to reserve any materials from other libraries throughout the country (which is free, though). But still, a lot of the exhibited material appears rather random and even poor. I used to frequent them a real lot, but now I've got my own stuff in stead. Of course, there are still also specialized, high-quality research libraries, and a few, better equipped central ones.

Oh, yes!  I always inspect them (though haven't seen LPs for sale there recently).   

Wouldn't your libraries keep historical and rare items like books on local history and have someone who specializes in it (if they are large enough and have the funds to afford someone like that....someone who knows a lot about the local and regional history...also helping in genealogical research?)?  I've noticed that there are more things available online like e-books and digital versions of magazines.  And, yes, they've expanded things around here like adding in:  free wi-fi, instruments to borrow in some of them, book groups, etc.  Lucky you that you can borrow (and for free) books, etc. from throughout your whole country!  We don't have quite that scope (though we are larger of course    ), but we do have borrowing systems (for free) within a decent area and you can pay to expand that (at least a certain bit as far as I know).

PD

[vandermolen]

I've been taking books and CDs to the Oxfam and Mind charity shops locally, especially if I find that I have three copies of the same CD 

[foxandpeng]

I've been taking books and CDs to the Oxfam and Mind charity shops locally, especially if I find that I have three copies of the same CD 

That's our problem, except with books!

As far as downsizing music is concerned, once we solved the problem of storage by moving to digital and streamed media, the requirement dissipated. I doubt I will ever lose the desire or capacity for new music, so although I will always revisit favourites, I can't see I will want to narrow my world.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

I've been taking books and CDs to the Oxfam and Mind charity shops locally, especially if I find that I have three copies of the same CD 

Whoopsie!    I know, it's hard to keep up with everything--particularly when the same recordings come out on different labels, or are remastered, or they keep changing the danged artwork!

PD

[MusicTurner]

Oh, yes!  I always inspect them (though haven't seen LPs for sale there recently).   

Wouldn't your libraries keep historical and rare items like books on local history and have someone who specializes in it (if they are large enough and have the funds to afford someone like that....someone who knows a lot about the local and regional history...also helping in genealogical research?)?  I've noticed that there are more things available online like e-books and digital versions of magazines.  And, yes, they've expanded things around here like adding in:  free wi-fi, instruments to borrow in some of them, book groups, etc.  Lucky you that you can borrow (and for free) books, etc. from throughout your whole country!  We don't have quite that scope (though we are larger of course    ), but we do have borrowing systems (for free) within a decent area and you can pay to expand that (at least a certain bit as far as I know).

PD

Yes, most libraries here keep such collections of some local history, for example the Frederiksberg library, a town-and-municipality-within-Copenhagen, but the most detailed material in such matters are often at the local historical archives, partly run by volunteers and associations, they exist in a ton of communities and are a font of such sources, incl. collections of photographs, postcards, pamphlets and a lot of other stuff. There are also a lot of highly specialized libraries, especially in the capital. Basically, all library book collections here are 'reservable' from a central database called www.bibliotek.dk, and you can 'order' them to be delivered at your local library and borrow them for a month - unless it's valuable, or very rare, or has restricted usage (that can be the case for example with university institute libraries). I'm also registered with about 15 of my almost 40 small, modest magazine articles in that general system.

Concerning the expanded library functions, a lot of libraries are also open say until midnight, or around the clock, a lot of the time unstaffed, where you use your social security card and maybe a code to open the door. They also provide office hours for municipal consulting and services. This is a in a way good, due to easy access, but at the same time, the traditional library functions and knowledge, including staff, have been downsized, and libraries can become a sort of home-away-from-home for people with a social need, or social problems, leaving employees to be also social workers and consultants in municipal matters ...

The most unique libraries I've seen was a tiny, frescoed chapel in the French village of Saorge (https://www.fred-38.fr/album-photos/art-sacre-dans-les-alpes/06-alpes-maritimes/saorge/), and a sort of lovely, traditional Pippi-Longstocking villa, complete with antique furniture, in a Swedish village (it's a local initiative; the interiors are lovely & there's a cafe https://www.sundborn.com/biblioteket ) ... overall, it's good, and a necessity, that libraries are kept alive, in spite of the digitalization and individualizing trends ...

Are your libraries financed via taxes, or is it a combination with private donations also, or are they mainly privately funded? Private donations are a rare thing here, I think. It's not a subject I know much about, though of course the US is known for the 'presidential libraries' and the Morgan Library Museum, for example

[Szykneij]

Buying ex-libris LPs can be a real crap shot.  Normally, the popular ones got lots of play and weren't, shall we say, always treated the best?

PD

And sometimes only certain movements were played, so the vinyl is worn extremely unevenly. Back in my music school undergraduate days, students would go to the music library to listen to assigned pieces and the library technician would set the needle on the lp which was heard through headphones at a listening station. I'm certain there were many records that were never played, except for one particular side and band that was requested over and over. That system is probably why I've found used records from college libraries tend to be in better shape than from general libraries.

[Irons]

And sometimes only certain movements were played, so the vinyl is worn extremely unevenly. Back in my music school undergraduate days, students would go to the music library to listen to assigned pieces and the library technician would set the needle on the lp which was heard through headphones at a listening station. I'm certain there were many records that were never played, except for one particular side and band that was requested over and over. That system is probably why I've found used records from college libraries tend to be in better shape than from general libraries.

I find box sets are a good shout. Also with composers the more obscure the better which is what I'm looking for anyway.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

I find box sets are a good shout. Also with composers the more obscure the better which is what I'm looking for anyway.

Shhh....don't let the secret out!   

On a serious note, often I find that to be the case--except though with opera sets.  It seems that I often find a scratch on the big arias tracks. 

PD