Anyone with a recording of Elgar's cello concerto? Question inside

[Lethevich]

I'm putting this in the diner because it's not really about the music - would've been posted in the Elgar thread, but it's locked due to the inability for anybody to discuss Elgar in there.

If it's no trouble, could anyone with a recording of the piece check the movement times and post them for me (along with who is performing)? I'm trying to establish a median figure, so several sets of times will be needed. I would've just PMed 71db, but a) he isn't visiting as much now and b) despite liking Elgar, I think he avoids buying duplicate recordings.

[bricon]

I have 2 recordings of the Elgar Cello Concerto in E minor Op.85.

1)   Jacqueline du Pré with the London Symphony Orchestra, conducted by Daniel Baremboim. Recorded in September 1965.

I   Adagio – Moderato 7:59
II   Lento – Allegro motto 4:28
III   Adagio 5:15
IV   Allegro ma non troppo 12:16



2)  Steven Isserlis with the London Symphony Orchestra, conducted by Richard Hickox. Recorded in August 1988.

I        Adagio – Moderato 7:54
II       Lento – Allegro motto 4:45
III      Adagio 4:45
IV      Allegro ma non troppo 11:31

[Sergeant Rock]

                                      I            II         III       IV

Carr/Tortelier BBC            7:32      4:34     4:33   11:05
Schiff/Marriner Dresden    7:42      4:28     5:40    11:11
Webber/Menuhin RPO       8:17      4:26     5:15    11:17
Du Pré/Barbirolli LSO       7:58      4:28     5:15    12:15
Maisky/Sinopoli Philh       7:47      4:08     5:03    11:13

Sarge

[orbital]

Fournier w/ Alfred Wallenstein and BPO (DG)
i. 07:14
ii. 04:11
iii. 04:11
iv. 10:27

[Gurn Blanston]

Orchestre Philharmonique de Monte Carlo / Tabachnik / Truls Mørk:

I.    7'31"
II.   4'32"
III.  4'35"
IV.  11'00"

[Larry Rinkel]

Pieter Wispelwey, Jac van Steen, Netherlands Radio Philharmonic, Channel Classics CCS 12998:

7:38
4:34
4:31
11:09

[paul]

Ones I have not mentioned yet:

Beatrice Harrison, New Symphony Orchestra, Edward Elgar

7:10
4:25
4:01
9:19

Yo-Yo Ma, London Symphony Orchestra, André Previn

12:25 (combined 1st and 2nd movements)
5:00
11:42

[Larry Rinkel]

Ones I have not mentioned yet:

Beatrice Harrison, New Symphony Orchestra, Edward Elgar

7:10
4:25
4:01
9:19

The fastest times, sometimes by far, for the outer movements.

[Lethevich]

Thank you all very much, that's a great amount of recordings

Edit: I notice the two Du Pre ones are identical give or take a second - I assume these are the same performance?

[Mark]

Edit: I notice the two Du Pre ones are identical give or take a second - I assume these are the same performance?

There are at least three Du Pre recordings that I'm aware of, but given the closeness of the timings given above, I'm assuming folks here are referring to the classic 1965 EMI recording.

[Lethevich]

Danke

[paul]

The fastest times, sometimes by far, for the outer movements.

Harrison does rip through those movements. I have a few of the CDs that Pearl issued of Elgar conducting his own works and I'm surprised at how fast he conducts a lot of the pieces. It wouldn't surprise me if he did this just so they fit correctly on record, but he could have also preferred the tempos. The recordings are really great to listen to if you want to hear the style of English orchestras from the first half of the 20th century. My favorite part is how much they used to slide between notes and how they planned these slides within phrases "tastefully".

[BachQ]

I'm assuming folks here are referring to the classic 1965 EMI recording.

Yes, I'm assuming that as well ......... 

[Szykneij]

Casals / BBC Symphony / Boult

I. 7:49
II. 4:42
III. 4:04
IV. 11:07

[71 dB]

I would've just PMed 71db, but a) he isn't visiting as much now and b) despite liking Elgar, I think he avoids buying duplicate recordings.

I do lurk here daily even if I do not post that much. I avoid duplicates but I do have these:

Maria Kliegel / Royal Philharmonic Orchestra / Michael Halász / Naxos 8.550503
Janos Starker / London Philharmonic Orchestra / Leonard Slatkin / RCA
Lynn Harrell / Cleveland Orchestra / Lorin Maazel / Belart (Decca)
Jacqueline du Pré / London Symphony Orchestra / John Barbirolli / EMI

The last one is already reported so...

Kliegel/Halász

8:53
4:39
5:07
12:04

Harrell/Maazel

8:01
4:28
4:51
10:52

Starker/Slatkin

7:25
4:29
4:35
11:11

[karlhenning]

Just to judge by timings, Poju, that Naxos reading looks downright languorous.

[BachQ]

I do lurk here daily

....... And we're more than delighted to have your company here ........

[Larry Rinkel]

Harrison does rip through those movements. I have a few of the CDs that Pearl issued of Elgar conducting his own works and I'm surprised at how fast he conducts a lot of the pieces. It wouldn't surprise me if he did this just so they fit correctly on record, but he could have also preferred the tempos. The recordings are really great to listen to if you want to hear the style of English orchestras from the first half of the 20th century. My favorite part is how much they used to slide between notes and how they planned these slides within phrases "tastefully".

But I think you'll find the same thing in a number of older recordings. Take anything recorded by Albert Coates, for instance - his tempos are often blazingly fast, and yet there's often a degree of fine articulation you don't hear in some of today's more homogenized performances. There is of course always the suspicion that decisions on tempos, cuts, repeats, etc., were motivated by the length of the 78 rpm side. Weingartner's Beethoven 7th, for example, which leaves out almost all repeats, was timed I'm sure to fit on 9 78 rpm sides. I don't recall offhand if Elgar assigned metronome markings to his works, but I think you'll find that many modern performances of orchestral music come out far slower than the composer's markings. For example, Tchaikovsky's setting for the opening Allegro of the 5th symphony, dotted quarter = 104, is faster than any modern performance I have ever heard, where dotted quarter = 72 is not uncommon. The portamentos you speak of are also largely gone today. You can still hear them in Toscanini's 1938 Eroica (I forget which orchestra), but by his last recording around 1950 with the NBC they're gone.

I realize there are a lot of holes to pick in all the above, but I'm just writing it very quickly OTTOMH, and at 60 wpm.

[karlhenning]

Smokin', Larry!

[71 dB]

....... And we're more than delighted to have your company here ........

You better be since I'm giving you what you want: Less free-thinking and vibrational fields.