Sir Arnold Bax

Started by tjguitar, April 15, 2007, 06:12:44 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

SymphonicAddict

Quote from: calyptorhynchus on May 23, 2017, 01:54:36 PM
Funnily enough I think the 4th is greatest of the Bax Symphonies!

I also like 2, 5 and 7.

But I have always found 1*, 3 and 6 to be disappointing, with many of the diffuse moments that SymphonicAddict noted.

*(Disappointing despite the bass oboe  :D )

I think one of the reasons why Bax's works are uneven is that he had a formidable piano technique, and could could sight-read orchestral scores at the piano. I think that he composed the other way round, ie he improvised at the piano, then wrote the improvisation down as a sketch, and later orchestrated it. (The symphony no.1 originated as one of the piano sonatas (is it also 1?). I think this explains how in some of the works the inspiration carries through and in others it doesn't. Several times recently listening to the symphonies I came across passages where I thought "that would sound really well on the piano, but sounds too weak or mannered for orchestra".

It's possible what you say about orchestrating from the piano, but from my point of view the No. 4 is sort of feeble, I mean, it has some brilliant moments, it's strong in terms of orchestration but in terms of motives and internal coherence it's strange for my taste.

vandermolen

Letter from Vaughan Williams to the Editor of The Radio Times 6th January 1933:

'I notice a curious error in your issue of December 16. In discussing a concert of compositions by Arnold Bax and various continental composers you state that: 'Arnold Bax is clearly in place in this distinguished company'. I take it that the sentence was meant to express that the other composers were not unworthy to a place beside Arnold Bax. Personally I do not consider that most of the names on that programme are worthy to stand beside Bax, but this of course is a matter of opinion.

R. Vaughan Williams'

(The other composers included Szmanowski, Schoenberg, Hindemith, Poulenc, Norbert von Hannenheim, Conrad Beck and Stravinsky).
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Klaze

That was very nice of him, but on the other hand, as he says it is a matter of opinion, so why an "error"?

I enjoy Bax but wouldnt dare to point out 4 names of those 7 which are unworthy of standing beside Bax.

Rons_talking

Quote from: SymphonicAddict on May 22, 2017, 07:21:45 PM
Recently I listened to his symphonies (Chandos, Thomson) and I had a 'bittersweet' experience. This composer gave me great expectations, but unfortunately I was dissapointed in some aspects: despite there are appealing works in this field, I felt many diffuse moments, there is no much connection of ideas, there is no integrity and I find an excessive use of percussion and other instruments (the same happened with H. Brian) as if he was trying to fill the lack of tunes with this method, and possibly I think that was one of his fails like composer of symphonies. On the other hand, I did feel many moments of power, subtle beauty and a magic depiction of Ireland and Celtic landscapes. Having said this, my favorite symphonies are the 1st, 3rd, 5th ones and maybe the 6th one and/or the 7th one. Also I've played some tone poems (Christmas Eve, The Garden of Fand, Tintagel, Roscatha and the fiery Paean), I can hear another different Bax in them, indeed they are more cohesive, more compact, more engaging. I will continue exploring his other works.

Tone Poem Bax does seem to be a different voice than Symphony Bax. I like his 6thS but the poems are so expressive and colourful...

vandermolen

Quote from: Rons_talking on June 10, 2017, 01:59:29 AM
Tone Poem Bax does seem to be a different voice than Symphony Bax. I like his 6thS but the poems are so expressive and colourful...
I like both. Nympholept, Tintagel, Festival Overture, The Tale the Pine Trees Knew and the Tapiola-like November Woods are favourites of mine.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

SymphonicAddict

Recently I had the opportunity of hearing almost all his orchestral works, and I wasn't wrong when I said my appreciations about those pieces: they are better than the symphonies (at least according to my tastes). Special mentions are the 3 Northern Ballads, A Legend, In Memoriam, Festival Overture, On the Sea Shore (this piece really captures a magnificent view of the sea with a kind of storm in the distance), Cortège, London Pageant, Winter Legends, Phantasy for viola and orchestra, and the works I mentioned in a previous reply. Therefore, now I consider Bax one of my favorite British composers. It was worth to explore.

vandermolen

Quote from: SymphonicAddict on July 06, 2017, 03:18:21 PM
Recently I had the opportunity of hearing almost all his orchestral works, and I wasn't wrong when I said my appreciations about those pieces: they are better than the symphonies (at least according to my tastes). Special mentions are the 3 Northern Ballads, A Legend, In Memoriam, Festival Overture, On the Sea Shore (this piece really captures a magnificent view of the sea with a kind of storm in the distance), Cortège, London Pageant, Winter Legends, Phantasy for viola and orchestra, and the works I mentioned in a previous reply. Therefore, now I consider Bax one of my favorite British composers. It was worth to explore.
On the Sea Shore is a new discovery for me too. Yes, the Festival Overture, despite its unpromising title, is excellent. I'd add Nympholept too.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

SymphonicAddict

Quote from: vandermolen on July 06, 2017, 10:36:26 PM
On the Sea Shore is a new discovery for me too. Yes, the Festival Overture, despite its unpromising title, is excellent. I'd add Nympholept too.

I had forgotten Nympholept. The concertante works didn't make the best impressions on me (Concertante for piano -left hand- and orchestra, Concertante for wind instruments and orchestra, Morning Song and the violin concerto). I'd save the cello concerto and Saga Fragment. The next stuff will be the chamber works. I'll do that when the time allows it  :)

vandermolen

Quote from: SymphonicAddict on July 07, 2017, 04:39:44 PM
I had forgotten Nympholept. The concertante works didn't make the best impressions on me (Concertante for piano -left hand- and orchestra, Concertante for wind instruments and orchestra, Morning Song and the violin concerto). I'd save the cello concerto and Saga Fragment. The next stuff will be the chamber works. I'll do that when the time allows it  :)
I don't think much of the Violin or Cello Concerto but like the Symphonic Variations. The Harp Quintet is, by far, my favourite of Bax's chamber works.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

vandermolen

Interesting new release. This may be the same recording as was available on Dutton:
[asin]B0757G5FH9[/asin]
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

relm1

Quote from: vandermolen on June 10, 2017, 08:04:09 AM
I like both. Nympholept, Tintagel, Festival Overture, The Tale the Pine Trees Knew and the Tapiola-like November Woods are favourites of mine.

Vandermolen, you're all right in my book.  I too like both.  I see Bax more as timeline development than genre.  So music written during 1910-20 whether it is tone poem or symphony is dramatic and passionate.  But later Bax has more french influence by way of Sibelius regardless if it is symphony or poems.

vandermolen

Quote from: relm1 on September 07, 2017, 04:24:25 PM
Vandermolen, you're all right in my book.  I too like both.  I see Bax more as timeline development than genre.  So music written during 1910-20 whether it is tone poem or symphony is dramatic and passionate.  But later Bax has more french influence by way of Sibelius regardless if it is symphony or poems.
Thank you.  :)
I very much agree about the sibelian influence. Symphony 5 had a big impact on me when I discovered it in the 1970s on a Lyrita LP. It is still, I think, the best performance of it, conducted by Raymond Leppard.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

tjguitar

Quote from: vandermolen on September 07, 2017, 07:35:40 AM
Interesting new release. This may be the same recording as was available on Dutton:
[asin]B0757G5FH9[/asin]

The Goosens performance is the same as Dutton, but as far as I know, this is the first release of this recording of that performance of Winter Legends...

kyjo

I've recently come to really appreciate Bax's Piano Quintet, a symphonically-scaled work in Bax's trademark "legendary" style. The opening is one of my favorites in chamber music - a passionate cello melody accompanied by rippling piano arpeggios. It's a real emotional journey of a piece. I highly recommend this recording:

[asin]B0043XCKSU[/asin]
"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" - Sergei Rachmaninoff

vandermolen

I love the Harp Quintet.
That Bridge and Bax CD looks great too.
Here is a review of the new Lyrita release. It's sitting on my desk upstairs but I haven't opened it yet:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2017/Nov/Bax_sy2_REAM1137.htm
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

kyjo

Quote from: vandermolen on November 16, 2017, 11:11:39 AM
I love the Harp Quintet.

A beautiful work indeed - one of Bax's most readily accessible pieces IMO.
"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" - Sergei Rachmaninoff

vandermolen

Quote from: San Antonio on November 16, 2017, 11:28:29 AM
How strange.  I just decided to listen to the work.  I had noticed activity on this thread, but had not visited it or read the thread and thought to myself, "you hardly ever listen to anything by Bax."  So I looked for some chamber music and saw the Harp Quintet.

:)

Did you enjoy it?
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

relm1

Quick poll...have any of you heard a live concert performance of a Bax symphony?  I am just curious how rare is it to actually hear one of his long works live.

vandermolen

Quote from: relm1 on January 09, 2018, 04:12:12 PM
Quick poll...have any of you heard a live concert performance of a Bax symphony?  I am just curious how rare is it to actually hear one of his long works live.

It's very rare indeed.

I have seen No.5 decades ago and the Albert Hall was half empty and No.2 (also at a Prom concert in London I think) more recently.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Maestro267

It is a complete and utter disgrace, one of the things for which classical music must be most shameful, that the concert hall repertoire is so narrow. But as we all know, The Big £/$ rules the world.