Sir Arnold Bax

Started by tjguitar, April 15, 2007, 06:12:44 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

SymphonicAddict

Quote from: kyjo on January 09, 2019, 11:11:34 AM
The 1st is actually my favorite Bax symphony - it's well-constructed and powerful with a chillingly atmospheric slow movement. I'm not too keen on the 4th - it has some interesting parts but seems too diffuse to my ears.

My thoughts exactly.

SymphonicAddict

It's agreeable when you feel a determined work doesn't work for you, and some time later, suddenly, it makes much more sense. That is the case of the 4th Symphony. It happened to me today. I remember not being enthralled by what I heard some months ago, likely because of the somewhat (not always) recurrent "issue" with this composer: lots of ideas but rather diffuse. Possibly it does have a degree of that, though. However, today my reaction was very different. Now I've come to appreciate better its meaning, and there is even a memorable melody in the 3rd movement, something I didn't pay attention to before.

I hope it can work for other works of other composers.

aukhawk

Quote from: vandermolen on January 08, 2019, 11:15:26 AM
Sorry to cloud the issue but I think that the two Lyrita CDs featuring symphonies 1 and 7 and 2 and 5 are unsurpassed.
[asin]B0012XDFPG[/asin]

That is a great coupling of THE two most successful Lyrita Bax recordings.  Although I find the CD transfer has lost a little of the sheer weight of the organ in the 2nd symphony, compared with my vinyl copy.

vandermolen

Quote from: aukhawk on February 04, 2019, 05:47:30 AM
That is a great coupling of THE two most successful Lyrita Bax recordings.  Although I find the CD transfer has lost a little of the sheer weight of the organ in the 2nd symphony, compared with my vinyl copy.

Interesting to know. I love the doom-laden organ entry in Symphony 2.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

kyjo

Quote from: SymphonicAddict on February 03, 2019, 07:40:34 PM
It's agreeable when you feel a determined work doesn't work for you, and some time later, suddenly, it makes much more sense. That is the case of the 4th Symphony. It happened to me today. I remember not being enthralled by what I heard some months ago, likely because of the somewhat (not always) recurrent "issue" with this composer: lots of ideas but rather diffuse. Possibly it does have a degree of that, though. However, today my reaction was very different. Now I've come to appreciate better its meaning, and there is even a memorable melody in the 3rd movement, something I didn't pay attention to before.

I hope it can work for other works of other composers.

That's good to know, Cesar (I was also rather unimpressed with the 4th at first hearing). Which recording did you listen to?
"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" - Sergei Rachmaninoff

Maestro267

It's quite bizarre how many people seem to find the Fourth unimpressive. It was the first of his symphonies I really got into, and it remains my favourite, with 6 and 2 following it. The odd-numbered symphonies aren't really as memorable to me personally. They're fine works, but nothing majorly sticks in my mind from them, and when I do listen to Bax's symphonies, it's always the even-numbered ones that jump out at me first.

vandermolen

Quote from: Maestro267 on February 04, 2019, 07:04:11 AM
It's quite bizarre how many people seem to find the Fourth unimpressive. It was the first of his symphonies I really got into, and it remains my favourite, with 6 and 2 following it. The odd-numbered symphonies aren't really as memorable to me personally. They're fine works, but nothing majorly sticks in my mind from them, and when I do listen to Bax's symphonies, it's always the even-numbered ones that jump out at me first.

That's really interesting as I like the odd numbered ones especially 1,3 and 5 + 7 in Raymond Leppard's recording. I'm less keen on No. 6 than many but am more keen on No.4 than some. With Malcolm Arnold it's also the odd numbered symphonies which I like more + No.6.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

SymphonicAddict

Quote from: kyjo on February 04, 2019, 06:30:21 AM
That's good to know, Cesar (I was also rather unimpressed with the 4th at first hearing). Which recording did you listen to?

That by Bryden Thomson on Chandos, which some claim it's the best recording of it.

Quote from: vandermolen on February 04, 2019, 07:59:16 AM
That's really interesting as I like the odd numbered ones especially 1,3 and 5 + 7 in Raymond Leppard's recording. I'm less keen on No. 6 than many but am more keen on No.4 than some. With Malcolm Arnold it's also the odd numbered symphonies which I like more + No.6.

The odd numbered ones, somehow, appeal to me the most too.

Mirror Image

Quote from: Maestro267 on February 04, 2019, 07:04:11 AM
It's quite bizarre how many people seem to find the Fourth unimpressive. It was the first of his symphonies I really got into, and it remains my favourite, with 6 and 2 following it. The odd-numbered symphonies aren't really as memorable to me personally. They're fine works, but nothing majorly sticks in my mind from them, and when I do listen to Bax's symphonies, it's always the even-numbered ones that jump out at me first.

What may be even more bizarre is I don't think much of Bax's music in general. The only work I ever connected with on an emotional and intellectual level was the chamber work In Memoriam. I find so much of his music meandering (not in a good way) and I often feel like "Where's the heart?" or "What's the point of this?"

vandermolen

Quote from: Mirror Image on February 04, 2019, 08:43:28 PM
What may be even more bizarre is I don't think much of Bax's music in general. The only work I ever connected with on an emotional and intellectual level was the chamber work In Memoriam. I find so much of his music meandering (not in a good way) and I often feel like "Where's the heart?" or "What's the point of this?"

I don't think that's at all bizarre John. Many classical music enthusiasts find Bax's music too diffuse and rambling. Vaughan Williams (a friend of Bax's) said that Bax could have done with some 'gruelling lessons with Stanford' at the Royal College of Music (which Bax, unlike VW, didn't attend) but then admitted that they would only have argued anyway. As with Miaskovsky, in a way, there are moments of intense poetry in Bax (the Epilogue of Symphony 3 for example and that of Symphony 7) which I find very poignant and moving. Symphony 5 (especially in Leppard's Lyrita recording) has the tightest structure I think and is probably my overall favourite of the seven.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Mirror Image

Quote from: vandermolen on February 05, 2019, 01:53:46 AM
I don't think that's at all bizarre John. Many classical music enthusiasts find Bax's music too diffuse and rambling. Vaughan Williams (a friend of Bax's) said that Bax could have done with some 'gruelling lessons with Stanford' at the Royal College of Music (which Bax, unlike VW, didn't attend) but then admitted that they would only have argued anyway. As with Miaskovsky, in a way, there are moments of intense poetry in Bax (the Epilogue of Symphony 3 for example and that of Symphony 7) which I find very poignant and moving. Symphony 5 (especially in Leppard's Lyrita recording) has the tightest structure I think and is probably my overall favourite of the seven.

Indeed, Jeffrey. Despite my struggle with Bax, I still own A LOT of his music, but I find his chamber music much more successful than the orchestral music, but it's really been quite some time since I've even listened to any of his music at all. Oh wait...I just thought of an orchestral piece I find rather good, the opening movement of Spring Fire.

vandermolen

Quote from: Mirror Image on February 05, 2019, 06:25:46 AM
Indeed, Jeffrey. Despite my struggle with Bax, I still own A LOT of his music, but I find his chamber music much more successful than the orchestral music, but it's really been quite some time since I've even listened to any of his music at all. Oh wait...I just thought of an orchestral piece I find rather good, the opening movement of Spring Fire.

I've always loved the Harp Quintet and thanks to recommendations from Kyle and Cesar of this forum (during the Mirror Image 'wilderness years' I think  8)) I discovered the wonderful Piano Quintet. What do you think of this work John?
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Mirror Image

Quote from: vandermolen on February 05, 2019, 07:25:45 AM
I've always loved the Harp Quintet and thanks to recommendations from Kyle and Cesar of this forum (during the Mirror Image 'wilderness years' I think  8)) I discovered the wonderful Piano Quintet. What do you think of this work John?

I'll have to revisit it (the Piano Quintet), Jeffrey. The Harp Quintet, IIRC, was lovely.

Irons

Quote from: vandermolen on February 05, 2019, 01:53:46 AM
I don't think that's at all bizarre John. Many classical music enthusiasts find Bax's music too diffuse and rambling. Vaughan Williams (a friend of Bax's) said that Bax could have done with some 'gruelling lessons with Stanford' at the Royal College of Music (which Bax, unlike VW, didn't attend) but then admitted that they would only have argued anyway. As with Miaskovsky, in a way, there are moments of intense poetry in Bax (the Epilogue of Symphony 3 for example and that of Symphony 7) which I find very poignant and moving. Symphony 5 (especially in Leppard's Lyrita recording) has the tightest structure I think and is probably my overall favourite of the seven.

I am surprised, although perhaps I shouldn't be, that with all the Bax symphony cycles during the CD era - I can think of at least three - the Lyrita recordings still hold sway on this forum. Well done guys. ;)
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

I opened the door people rushed through and I was left holding the knob - Bo Diddley.

vandermolen

Quote from: Irons on February 05, 2019, 08:11:07 AM
I am surprised, although perhaps I shouldn't be, that with all the Bax symphony cycles during the CD era - I can think of at least three - the Lyrita recordings still hold sway on this forum. Well done guys. ;)

I still think they are the best (certainly I,2,5 and 7).
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Ghost of Baron Scarpia

#815
My listening to the symphonies has not been as satisfying as some other works by Bax. The Violin and Cello Concertos are mesmerizing. And I remember being enthralled by basically everything on this disc.

[asin]B0000DIXS1[/asin]

Bax is a master of atmosphere, almost unparalleled, in my view. The symphony doesn't seem quite the right genre for him.

And now I'm getting sentimental because it was long-departed member Lethevich that recommended this disc.

SymphonicAddict

Yes, atmosphere is one of the strongest points of Bax's music, and also the colourful orchestration. Definitely it seems evoking something legendary, and that appeals largely to my tastes, despite I find some of his music a bit disappointing, especially in his violin sonatas.

relm1

Quote from: SymphonicAddict on February 05, 2019, 09:45:43 AM
Yes, atmosphere is one of the strongest points of Bax's music, and also the colourful orchestration. Definitely it seems evoking something legendary, and that appeals largely to my tastes, despite I find some of his music a bit disappointing, especially in his violin sonatas.

That's a very fair point.  Sort of the same feelings I have with Gliere. 

Irons

I have heard it said that Bax needs an orchestra to show his true worth. I do not agree with that. I have not heard the violin sonatas but some other works for example 3rd SQ, Piano Quintet, Harp Quintet and piano works are excellent. Bax is a more disciplined composer with smaller forces.
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

I opened the door people rushed through and I was left holding the knob - Bo Diddley.

vandermolen

#819
Quote from: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on February 05, 2019, 08:56:40 AM
My listening to the symphonies has not been as satisfying as some other works by Bax. The Violin and Cello Concertos are mesmerizing. And I remember being enthralled by basically everything on this disc.

[asin]B0000DIXS1[/asin]

Bax is a master of atmosphere, almost unparalleled, in my view. The symphony doesn't seem quite the right genre for him.

And now I'm getting sentimental because it was long-departed member Lethevich that recommended this disc.
That is possibly my favourite Bax disc. I especially like Christmas Eve and Nympholept but even the unpromisingly titled 'Festival Overture' turns typically Baxian. I preferred the original release which included Tintagel:

The second posting on this thread is a recommendation from me for this disc.  8)
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).