Sir Arnold Bax

Started by tjguitar, April 15, 2007, 06:12:44 PM

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kyjo

Quote from: vandermolen on May 31, 2019, 06:55:53 AM
I really like it Kyle and find the 'sunset epilogue' at the end very moving - a fine end to Bax's cycle of symphonies. I think, though, that the Raymond Leppard version on Lyrita is the best interpretation by far and none of the other versions move me nearly as much. I like the two 'weakest' Bax symphonies, nos 4 and 7.

Thanks, Jeffrey. I knew I could count on a reply from you ;) I'll have to check out the Leppard version on Lyrita.
"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" - Sergei Rachmaninoff

vandermolen

Quote from: kyjo on May 31, 2019, 07:34:37 AM
Thanks, Jeffrey. I knew I could count on a reply from you ;) I'll have to check out the Leppard version on Lyrita.
Yes, it's in a class of its own Kyle. Having said that I had the LP all those decades ago which might have influenced my view. However my view of that recording is widely shared.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Roasted Swan

Quote from: kyjo on May 31, 2019, 07:34:37 AM
Thanks, Jeffrey. I knew I could count on a reply from you ;) I'll have to check out the Leppard version on Lyrita.

I do not consider Symphony 7 to be a 'weak' part of the cycle - just very different in mood from the others - especially the brooding muscular energy of the first two.  Leppard is indeed excellent - although as Jeffrey says - it was for so long the ONLY option that it is hard for that version not to be 'imprinted' on you.

Colin Scott-Sutherland in his book which was the first substantial survey of Bax's music, has an interesting view of the complete cycle.  He considers it as a single large symphonic arch where Nos. 1&2 are the "1st" movement, 3 a 'slow' movement, 4 a scherzo, 5&6 a finale and 7 the epilogue.  Given that the sheer energy of Bax's writing was waning by the time he got to No.7 I think he made a good choice to allow this work to be more valedictory and indeed visionary than the earlier ones (note the key marking at one point in the score "in legendary mood...".  I find it a very satisfying and indeed moving conclusion to a wonderful cycle....

vandermolen

Quote from: Roasted Swan on June 01, 2019, 12:35:53 AM
I do not consider Symphony 7 to be a 'weak' part of the cycle - just very different in mood from the others - especially the brooding muscular energy of the first two.  Leppard is indeed excellent - although as Jeffrey says - it was for so long the ONLY option that it is hard for that version not to be 'imprinted' on you.

Colin Scott-Sutherland in his book which was the first substantial survey of Bax's music, has an interesting view of the complete cycle.  He considers it as a single large symphonic arch where Nos. 1&2 are the "1st" movement, 3 a 'slow' movement, 4 a scherzo, 5&6 a finale and 7 the epilogue.  Given that the sheer energy of Bax's writing was waning by the time he got to No.7 I think he made a good choice to allow this work to be more valedictory and indeed visionary than the earlier ones (note the key marking at one point in the score "in legendary mood...".  I find it a very satisfying and indeed moving conclusion to a wonderful cycle....
An excellent point from Colin Scott-Sutherland, whose book I greatly enjoyed.
The Bax symphonies on Lyrita are my top choices with the exception of Symphony 6. However the LP releases get the prize for the most dreary cover designs (all exactly the same but in different colours). The Thomson LP release cover image for Symphony 7 was much more atmospheric:

"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

aukhawk

They illustrate the point I made in another thread about the cover image pre-conditioning the listener towards the music.  I much prefer the Lyrita image for that reason.  And I like my streamable music library, where I can choose to avoid the cover image altogether.

vandermolen

#865
Quote from: aukhawk on June 01, 2019, 09:32:28 AM
They illustrate the point I made in another thread about the cover image pre-conditioning the listener towards the music.  I much prefer the Lyrita image for that reason.  And I like my streamable music library, where I can choose to avoid the cover image altogether.
Fair enough.

Personally I think that this would have been a much better choice of cover for the Lyrita disc. Never seen it before - just discovered it online tonight:

"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

relm1

I love Bax's No. 7.  I find it very rhapsodic and richly detailed with some Ravelian touches like his early symphonies.  The only version I have heard is the Chandos/LPO/Bryden Thomson which is frankly my favorite cycle.  I do very much enjoy the Raymond Leppard  Lyrita recordings that I've heard but adore Bryden Thomson's other worldly performances on Chandos.  Those of you not convinced of the value of No. 7, check it out. 

vandermolen

#867
Quote from: relm1 on June 01, 2019, 05:02:31 PM
I love Bax's No. 7.  I find it very rhapsodic and richly detailed with some Ravelian touches like his early symphonies.  The only version I have heard is the Chandos/LPO/Bryden Thomson which is frankly my favorite cycle.  I do very much enjoy the Raymond Leppard  Lyrita recordings that I've heard but adore Bryden Thomson's other worldly performances on Chandos.  Those of you not convinced of the value of No. 7, check it out.

I think that the Bryden Thomson set is the best choice for someone who wants a complete set of the symphonies. As far as I'm concerned they are all strong performances. Also there are some wonderful shorter works which accompanied the symphonies on their original CD release, including the magical 'Christmas Eve' 'Nympholept', 'Festival Overure' (a much better work than the title suggests) and 'Paen' not to mention 'Tinragel' you can get them all together on a single Chandos CD.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Irons

Quote from: vandermolen on June 01, 2019, 11:53:10 AM
Fair enough.

Personally I think that this would have been a much better choice of cover for the Lyrita disc. Never seen it before - just discovered it online tonight:


That is a Lyrita LP release for the American market by HNH. MHS (Musical Heritage Society) also issued Lyrita recordings in the US.

The Keith Hensby designed Lyrita covers are outstanding and most have a connection with the music. Why the Bax set is so drab and uninteresting is a mystery.

Cover art is a subject in itself. I own two books on the subject. It is fascinating how styles have evolved over the years. This is true for today where I often come across images of most imaginative designs of CD covers on GMG. 
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

I opened the door people rushed through and I was left holding the knob - Bo Diddley.

vandermolen

#869
Quote from: Irons on June 02, 2019, 12:11:09 AM
That is a Lyrita LP release for the American market by HNH. MHS (Musical Heritage Society) also issued Lyrita recordings in the US.

The Keith Hensby designed Lyrita covers are outstanding and most have a connection with the music. Why the Bax set is so drab and uninteresting is a mystery.

Cover art is a subject in itself. I own two books on the subject. It is fascinating how styles have evolved over the years. This is true for today where I often come across images of most imaginative designs of CD covers on GMG.
Very interesting Lol. Coincidentally I'm listening to Symphony 7 from a Musical Heritage Society set right now! I communicated with Keith Hensby a few years ago as Rob Barnett from Musicweb, in one of his reviews, wondered what had happened to him. I was pleased to report that he was alive and well and  still working as a graphic artist.
I guess that this is him:
https://www.peterbarkerfineart.co.uk/shop/viewcategory.php?groupid=99

PS Thomson's recording of Symphony 7 is indeed excellent, helped by the atmospheric Chandos recording. It has the best epilogue of all the symphonies, certainly the most moving. Symphony No.7 has a hypnotic, dreamlike atmosphere which I find very appealing.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Irons

Quote from: vandermolen on June 02, 2019, 01:31:35 AM
Very interesting Lol. Coincidentally I'm listening to Symphony 7 from a Musical Heritage Society set right now! I communicated with Keith Hensby a few years ago as Rob Barnett from Musicweb, in one of his reviews, wondered what had happened to him. I was pleased to report that he was alive and well and  still working as a graphic artist.
I guess that this is him:
https://www.peterbarkerfineart.co.uk/shop/viewcategory.php?groupid=99

PS Thomson's recording of Symphony 7 is indeed excellent, helped by the atmospheric Chandos recording. It has the best epilogue of all the symphonies, certainly the most moving. Symphony No.7 has a hypnotic, dreamlike atmosphere which I find very appealing.

Wow! I have admired Keith Hensby's work for the Lyrita label for decades. I have yet to find an example out of just shy 400 Lyrita covers not designed by him. I had no idea that he excelled in other areas of art and design which in retrospect is a bit daft. I am absolutely delighted he is well and still going strong. Much appreciated, Jeffrey, for passing that on. Thanks.
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

I opened the door people rushed through and I was left holding the knob - Bo Diddley.

vandermolen

Quote from: Irons on June 02, 2019, 06:07:19 AM
Wow! I have admired Keith Hensby's work for the Lyrita label for decades. I have yet to find an example out of just shy 400 Lyrita covers not designed by him. I had no idea that he excelled in other areas of art and design which in retrospect is a bit daft. I am absolutely delighted he is well and still going strong. Much appreciated, Jeffrey, for passing that on. Thanks.

Actually it may be that I corresponded with Caractacus Downes of Lyrita about Keith Hensby rather than Mr Hensby himself come to think of it. It was a while ago now and I don't want to be the purveyor of 'Fake News'  8)
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Irons

Quote from: vandermolen on June 02, 2019, 08:16:17 AM
Actually it may be that I corresponded with Caractacus Downes of Lyrita about Keith Hensby rather than Mr Hensby himself come to think of it. It was a while ago now and I don't want to be the purveyor of 'Fake News'  8)

Caractacus Downes! Not a name forgotten in a hurry. ;D
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

I opened the door people rushed through and I was left holding the knob - Bo Diddley.

vandermolen

Quote from: Irons on June 02, 2019, 12:46:19 PM
Caractacus Downes! Not a name forgotten in a hurry. ;D
No, indeed. I corresponded with him several times hoping that Lyrita would release Edward Downes's recording of Bax's Third Symphony (RCA) on CD without realising that he was the conductor's son!  ::)
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Irons

#874
Quote from: vandermolen on June 02, 2019, 09:35:11 PM
No, indeed. I corresponded with him several times hoping that Lyrita would release Edward Downes's recording of Bax's Third Symphony (RCA) on CD without realising that he was the conductor's son!  ::)

You have done it again! Well I never! It must have been very difficult for him at his father's (assisted) passing - back of my mind it was both his parents.

On vinyl the Bax 3rd is released on Italian RCA. I have gone through quite a few and still as to yet not found a decent pressing.
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

I opened the door people rushed through and I was left holding the knob - Bo Diddley.

vandermolen

Quote from: Irons on June 02, 2019, 11:45:04 PM
You have done it again! Well I never! It must have been very difficult for him at his father's (assisted) passing - back of my mind it was both his parents.

On vinyl the Bax 3rd is released on Italian RCA. I have gone through quite a few and still as to yet not found a decent pressing.

Yes, when I was corresponding about how much I'd like to see the Downes's recording of Bax's Third Symphony released on a Lyrita CD (it is my favourite version) he replied; 'my father would be pleased as well' I brilliantly failed to put 2+2 together assuming that his father was just another admirer of that recording, rather than him being the conductor of the recording! ::)
Yes, you were right that it was both parents who died at the Swiss clinic. I recall that Caractacus was potentially in trouble over assisting them over there but, quite rightly, was not charged with anything. A very sad situation.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

vandermolen

A strong recommendation for this magical 1956 broadcast of Bax's 2nd Symphony, which fully conveys the sense of looming catastrophe which pervades the work.

"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

SymphonicAddict

Sadly I don't have that recording, I hope it is not a mono one if I get it.

On the other hand, this time I wanted to hear the 6th, which some claim is one of his best, and now I tend to agree with that. It has one of the most epic and marked beginnings I know by him, grabbing immediately the attention of the listener. I confirm the ability to evoke atmospheres is one of Bax's strongest attributes, I feel I'm taken to a cold and hostile scenery, not without some warmer moments that chiefly woodwinds offer. The contrast between the wild outbursts and the restful fairy-like moments is another appeal I find here. Moreover, the inner cohesion is linked to the exuberant orchestration that in turn helps to the atmosphere, it's just getting carried away by the fantastic sonorities, hence melodies are not always necessary to enjoy this work or most of the works by this composer. And I think it's one of your least favorite symphonies of him, Jeffrey, isn't it? I wonder why!  ;)

vandermolen

#878
Quote from: SymphonicAddict on June 17, 2019, 08:57:26 PM
Sadly I don't have that recording, I hope it is not a mono one if I get it.

On the other hand, this time I wanted to hear the 6th, which some claim is one of his best, and now I tend to agree with that. It has one of the most epic and marked beginnings I know by him, grabbing immediately the attention of the listener. I confirm the ability to evoke atmospheres is one of Bax's strongest attributes, I feel I'm taken to a cold and hostile scenery, not without some warmer moments that chiefly woodwinds offer. The contrast between the wild outbursts and the restful fairy-like moments is another appeal I find here. Moreover, the inner cohesion is linked to the exuberant orchestration that in turn helps to the atmosphere, it's just getting carried away by the fantastic sonorities, hence melodies are not always necessary to enjoy this work or most of the works by this composer. And I think it's one of your least favorite symphonies of him, Jeffrey, isn't it? I wonder why!  ;)

Hi Cesar. Symphony 2 is mono and Winter Legends is stereo.
Actually I have the highest opinion of all the Bax symphonies, although it's true that I do not consider No.6 the greatest. I think part of the problem is that I don't consider Norman Del Mar's Lyrita recording (the only one available for decades) on the same level as the other Lyrita recordings by Raymond Leppard and Myer Fredman. Actually I think that the Naxos recording by Lloyd-Jones or the Bryden Thomson on Chandos is preferable. I will listen again to Symphony 6 and it is a great symphony I agree. It may be that the Lyrita recording of Symphony 6 always struck me as rather 'boxed in'.

On a separate note I came across this rather touching obituary of Myer Fredman, the conductor of the legendary first recordings of Bax's 1st and 2nd symphonies (not to mention Havergal Brian's 6th and 16th also on Lyrita):
https://kevinpurcell.com.au/Content/2014/07/myer-fredman-1932-2014-the-passing-of-a-very-great-conductor-and-musician/
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Roasted Swan

I remember that broadcast of Winter Legends very well.  I don't have the disc but it must have 1978 or 79?  The Colin Scott-Sutherland book - the only real reference for Bax's music - made great play of its importance in his output.  So when the chance to hear it came up I was very interested.  Being at school at the time I had to rig up a simple timer for the radio at home (my mother pushing the record button on the rather basic music centre) and I ended up with a prized rather low-fi cassette - I think it just fitted on one side of a C-90!  To this day neither of the big piano concertante works by Bax - Winter Legends or Symphonic Variations do much for me.  A case of where Baxian "sprawl" overwhelms the music.  But I keep trying.......