Sir Arnold Bax

Started by tjguitar, April 15, 2007, 06:12:44 PM

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cilgwyn

Playing,now! A cd-r,I made,of the following:

1) Northern Ballad No 1                       LPO/Boult
2) Northern Ballad No 2                       BBCPO/Downes
3) Northern Ballad No 3                       BBCPO/Downes
4) The Tale the Pine Trees Knew           Ulster Orch/Boult

In that order! I rather liked the idea of putting all three Northern Ballads on one cd! Unfortunately,Chandos spoilt it,for me,by adding bilge like,the orchestration of,Red Autumn;and The Happy Forest,which I just don't think is one of Bax's best works! Anyway! The Northern Ballads go nicely together,because of their steely,Northern hue. As does,The Tale the Pine Trees Knew! I picked these recordings,because they are my favourites! (And I got rid of the Cello Concerto!! So,I can't rip Thomson's recording! Worse luck!! :o ;D). I might make another cd with Boult's recording of November Woods,as well! (It shares a similar atmosphere,in some ways,imho!). I included the shot of this Lp,because I like the cover photo! And it just seems to fit the music! Anyone know where the photo was taken?! It might say on the back of the Lp?!!


Biffo

Quote from: cilgwyn on June 29, 2019, 04:42:51 AM
Playing,now! A cd-r,I made,of the following:

1) Northern Ballad No 1                       LPO/Boult
2) Northern Ballad No 2                       BBCPO/Downes
3) Northern Ballad No 3                       BBCPO/Downes
4) The Tale the Pine Trees Knew           Ulster Orch/Boult

In that order! I rather liked the idea of putting all three Northern Ballads on one cd! Unfortunately,Chandos spoilt it,for me,by adding bilge like,the orchestration of,Red Autumn;and The Happy Forest,which I just don't think is one of Bax's best works! Anyway! The Northern Ballads go nicely together,because of their steely,Northern hue. As does,The Tale the Pine Trees Knew! I picked these recordings,because they are my favourites! (And I got rid of the Cello Concerto!! So,I can't rip Thomson's recording! Worse luck!! :o ;D). I might make another cd with Boult's recording of November Woods,as well! (It shares a similar atmosphere,in some ways,imho!). I included the shot of this Lp,because I like the cover photo! And it just seems to fit the music! Anyone know where the photo was taken?! It might say on the back of the Lp?!!



Unfortunately, it doesn't. I found a copy for sale on ebay and it had a photo of the reverse, no info regarding the cover.

vandermolen

Quote from: relm1 on June 28, 2019, 03:54:01 PM
If you can give more specifics, I would definitely like to understand your reference better.  There is certainly Horner's frequently heard "danger motif" which can be heard in Prokofiev's Alexander Nevsky which itself can be he heard in the opening bar of Rachmaninoff's Symphony No. 1.
I'll see if I can find my Avatar soundtrack CD.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

vandermolen

Quote from: cilgwyn on June 29, 2019, 04:42:51 AM
Playing,now! A cd-r,I made,of the following:

1) Northern Ballad No 1                       LPO/Boult
2) Northern Ballad No 2                       BBCPO/Downes
3) Northern Ballad No 3                       BBCPO/Downes
4) The Tale the Pine Trees Knew           Ulster Orch/Boult

In that order! I rather liked the idea of putting all three Northern Ballads on one cd! Unfortunately,Chandos spoilt it,for me,by adding bilge like,the orchestration of,Red Autumn;and The Happy Forest,which I just don't think is one of Bax's best works! Anyway! The Northern Ballads go nicely together,because of their steely,Northern hue. As does,The Tale the Pine Trees Knew! I picked these recordings,because they are my favourites! (And I got rid of the Cello Concerto!! So,I can't rip Thomson's recording! Worse luck!! :o ;D). I might make another cd with Boult's recording of November Woods,as well! (It shares a similar atmosphere,in some ways,imho!). I included the shot of this Lp,because I like the cover photo! And it just seems to fit the music! Anyone know where the photo was taken?! It might say on the back of the Lp?!!


Nice idea cigwyn!
I rather like this compilation:
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Roasted Swan

Quote from: cilgwyn on June 29, 2019, 04:42:51 AM

4) The Tale the Pine Trees Knew           Ulster Orch/Boult

Ulster Orchestra/Thomson ..... surely......

cilgwyn

I've got to say. As great as the Lyrita recording,undoubtedly is;after playing the Thomson recording,this has to be my favourite recording. The ferocity of the opening,and the thrilling,brooding,grandeur of the second movement,just have more impact for me. The Chandos recording certainly helps. But Bryden Thomson paces it,just perfectly for me. A magnificent recording! I'm listening to this recording,as part of the original box set,by the way!


vandermolen

Quote from: cilgwyn on July 02, 2019, 02:41:04 PM
I've got to say. As great as the Lyrita recording,undoubtedly is;after playing the Thomson recording,this has to be my favourite recording. The ferocity of the opening,and the thrilling,brooding,grandeur of the second movement,just have more impact for me. The Chandos recording certainly helps. But Bryden Thomson paces it,just perfectly for me. A magnificent recording! I'm listening to this recording,as part of the original box set,by the way!


It's a fabulous disc cilgwyn and I also like Christmas Eve very much. I was thinking about Bax today (as one does) and realised that, whilst I often have fine snatches of his music running through my head, I often cannot place which symphony it is from (4,6,7?). With Vaughan Williams I can immediately identify the symphony, or other work, where the music is from but invariably not with Bax. Maybe something to do with the diffuse nature of his musical inspiration.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

kyjo

Quote from: vandermolen on July 02, 2019, 02:56:38 PM
It's a fabulous disc cilgwyn and I also like Christmas Eve very much. I was thinking about Bax today (as one does) and realised that, whilst I often have fine snatches of his music running through my head, I often cannot place which symphony it is from (4,6,7?). With Vaughan Williams I can immediately identify the symphony, or other work, where the music is from but invariably not with Bax. Maybe something to do with the diffuse nature of his musical inspiration.

That's quite understandable, Jeffrey. Though an admirer of most of Bax's music, I feel the same way. His symphonies (and orchestral works in general) do not have as strongly profiled distinguishing characteristics as the works of some other composers, such as Vaughan Williams. Whereas each of VW's symphonies have very different characters and moods, all of Bax's have generally the same combination of epic/heroic/legendary/angry/mysterious moods, with the 1st and 2nd tending most towards "angry/mysterious".
"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" - Sergei Rachmaninoff

vandermolen

Quote from: kyjo on July 02, 2019, 08:28:43 PM
That's quite understandable, Jeffrey. Though an admirer of most of Bax's music, I feel the same way. His symphonies (and orchestral works in general) do not have as strongly profiled distinguishing characteristics as the works of some other composers, such as Vaughan Williams. Whereas each of VW's symphonies have very different characters and moods, all of Bax's have generally the same combination of epic/heroic/legendary/angry/mysterious moods, with the 1st and 2nd tending most towards "angry/mysterious".
I do agree Kyle although, paradoxically, Bax remains one of my favourite symphonists.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Irons

#909
Quote from: kyjo on July 02, 2019, 08:28:43 PM
That's quite understandable, Jeffrey. Though an admirer of most of Bax's music, I feel the same way. His symphonies (and orchestral works in general) do not have as strongly profiled distinguishing characteristics as the works of some other composers, such as Vaughan Williams. Whereas each of VW's symphonies have very different characters and moods, all of Bax's have generally the same combination of epic/heroic/legendary/angry/mysterious moods, with the 1st and 2nd tending most towards "angry/mysterious".

My problem with Bax (and it is my problem not his) in a nutshell. I love the tone poems which have an atmosphere all of their own. The one symphony that I do like does have an identifiable theme, the sea of the 4th. The others I find diffuse. I think the problem is that my scatter-gun approach doesn't work with Bax, I need to pick a symphony and concentrate on that alone.
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

I opened the door people rushed through and I was left holding the knob - Bo Diddley.

Irons

Quote from: Biffo on June 29, 2019, 05:06:05 AM
Unfortunately, it doesn't. I found a copy for sale on ebay and it had a photo of the reverse, no info regarding the cover.

Lake District?
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

I opened the door people rushed through and I was left holding the knob - Bo Diddley.

aukhawk

It does look a bit like Ullswater to me.

Biffo


cilgwyn

Quote from: vandermolen on July 02, 2019, 02:56:38 PM
It's a fabulous disc cilgwyn and I also like Christmas Eve very much. I was thinking about Bax today (as one does) and realised that, whilst I often have fine snatches of his music running through my head, I often cannot place which symphony it is from (4,6,7?). With Vaughan Williams I can immediately identify the symphony, or other work, where the music is from but invariably not with Bax. Maybe something to do with the diffuse nature of his musical inspiration.
Interesting! I can remember the beginnings of some of the symphonies,and sections of some of the symphonies;particularly the first two! I remember when I had the original Chandos Lp's,as a youngster,having the Second and First symphonies running,round and round,in my head. Particularly,the first two movements of the First,and 1st movement of the Second. My moods,tending to favour,some of the more brooding,turbulent and stormy,moments. I always seemed to associate the music with the Welsh countryside,in my minds eye. The mountains of North Pembrokeshire (well,mountains to us!). The second movement of the First symphony,is one of his finest creations,in my humble opinion! I used to see the rocky crags and cairns and sweeping vistas,across to the sea,in my mind;as I 'listened'! Having always been fascinated by Folklore,and,particularly,of the Welsh,or Celtic variety,Bax's music seemed an ideal accompanied. A sort of musical sound track,you might say! VW just didn't seem the right sort of music,for that kind of countryside. And,I wasn't really,'into',his music,anyway,back then. In fact,I was always,rather bemused,by the choice of music favoured in programs about the Welsh countryside,and history. It always seemed to tame and serene. Wales with it's turbulent history. The invasion and conquest of Wales and all the bloody deaths and suffering that must have caused. The erection of castles across the land,to contain and suppress,their ancient foes. Of course,that's all history,now! ;D

cilgwyn

Incidentally. A bit off-topic! But I listened to a cd-r I have had for some time,of Goossen's Second Symphony. The First was interesting. I quite liked it. But the Second Symphony grabbed my attention. I kept hearing snatches of it in my head. Particularly,those strange,'stamping' sounds,in the final movement! I'm not a musician,and I can't think of how else to describe them. I have read reviews,describing the music as being Baxian. Or,resembling that sound world. The first two,I presume? After listening to Bridge's Phantasm,I started thinking they sounded more like the sound world of late Bridge. Imagine if Bridge had composed a symphony (I wish he had!). A bit of the first two Bax symphonies;and maybe a little late Scriabin (as late as it gets) thrown in. But the world of late Bridge,was the closest comparison,to my ears. Thorny,chromatic and turbulent,with an epic feel. (Imagine if Bax had taken the style of his first two symphonies even further?) I even tried to cancel my order,at one point. Thankfully,the cd has been sent out,anyway! I just had to have it on an actual,physical cd. And with,a nice booklet,hopefully?!! It really 'grabbed me',that symphony! I had to own a cd of it!! ??? ;D

vandermolen

Quote from: cilgwyn on July 09, 2019, 03:24:45 AM
Interesting! I can remember the beginnings of some of the symphonies,and sections of some of the symphonies;particularly the first two! I remember when I had the original Chandos Lp's,as a youngster,having the Second and First symphonies running,round and round,in my head. Particularly,the first two movements of the First,and 1st movement of the Second. My moods,tending to favour,some of the more brooding,turbulent and stormy,moments. I always seemed to associate the music with the Welsh countryside,in my minds eye. The mountains of North Pembrokeshire (well,mountains to us!). The second movement of the First symphony,is one of his finest creations,in my humble opinion! I used to see the rocky crags and cairns and sweeping vistas,across to the sea,in my mind;as I 'listened'! Having always been fascinated by Folklore,and,particularly,of the Welsh,or Celtic variety,Bax's music seemed an ideal accompanied. A sort of musical sound track,you might say! VW just didn't seem the right sort of music,for that kind of countryside. And,I wasn't really,'into',his music,anyway,back then. In fact,I was always,rather bemused,by the choice of music favoured in programs about the Welsh countryside,and history. It always seemed to tame and serene. Wales with it's turbulent history. The invasion and conquest of Wales and all the bloody deaths and suffering that must have caused. The erection of castles across the land,to contain and suppress,their ancient foes. Of course,that's all history,now! ;D
Very interesting. I discovered Vaughan Williams at about the same time I discovered the Yorkshire Dales, my favourite part of England, where I have had many enjoyable holidays. I learned to associate Vaughan Williams's 6th Symphony, eecially the turbulent opening, with the craggy landscape of the bleaker sections of the Dales (Swaledale for example). Also I was no doubt influenced by the Decca Eclipse cover picture, although that was actually of the Lake Disrict rather than the Dales. Therefore I learnt to associate the 6th Symphony with the English landscape rather that with post-apocalyptic nuclear destruction!
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

vandermolen

#916
Quote from: cilgwyn on July 09, 2019, 03:37:12 AM
Incidentally. A bit off-topic! But I listened to a cd-r I have had for some time,of Goossen's Second Symphony. The First was interesting. I quite liked it. But the Second Symphony grabbed my attention. I kept hearing snatches of it in my head. Particularly,those strange,'stamping' sounds,in the final movement! I'm not a musician,and I can't think of how else to describe them. I have read reviews,describing the music as being Baxian. Or,resembling that sound world. The first two,I presume? After listening to Bridge's Phantasm,I started thinking they sounded more like the sound world of late Bridge. Imagine if Bridge had composed a symphony (I wish he had!). A bit of the first two Bax symphonies;and maybe a little late Scriabin (as late as it gets) thrown in. But the world of late Bridge,was the closest comparison,to my ears. Thorny,chromatic and turbulent,with an epic feel. (Imagine if Bax had taken the style of his first two symphonies even further?) I even tried to cancel my order,at one point. Thankfully,the cd has been sent out,anyway! I just had to have it on an actual,physical cd. And with,a nice booklet,hopefully?!! It really 'grabbed me',that symphony! I had to own a cd of it!! ??? ;D
I agree. Fine work. Christo like Goossens as well. I have the box set of his symphonies and the individual releases - in other words the same CD twice (let's not go there  ::)). I like both symphonies very much. What a shame that David Measham's fine recording, on Unicorn, was never released on CD (whereas his excellent Miaskovsky No.21 was). I think that it is the best recorded performance. Symphony No.1 was also Richard Hickox's last ever recording before his untimely death. I wish that he had gone on to record Symphony 2. I think that Goossens's Symphony 2 is rather 'Baxian' but he has a unique style and is perhaps my favourite 'conductor composer':

"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Christo

Quote from: vandermolen on July 09, 2019, 10:36:39 PM
I agree. Fine work. Christo like Goossens as well. I have the box set of his symphonies and the individual releases - in other words the same CD twice (let's not go there  ::)). I like both symphonies very much. What a shame that David Measham's fine recording, on Unicorn, was never released on CD (whereas his excellent Miaskovsky No.21 was). I think that it is the best recorded performance. Symphony No.1 was also Richard Hickox's last ever recording before his untimely death. I wish that he had gone on to record Symphony 2. I think that Goossens's Symphony 2 is rather 'Baxian' but he has a unique style and is perhaps my favourite 'conductor composer':


Agree about the Measham being the finest recording of the three; a pity it was never released on cd. The ABC Goossens box set is a treasure trove; still had the order it directly from Australia, fifteen years ago (for some reason ABC wasn't available in Europe, then).
... music is not only an 'entertainment', nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948

SymphonicAddict

Quote from: cilgwyn on July 02, 2019, 02:41:04 PM
I've got to say. As great as the Lyrita recording,undoubtedly is;after playing the Thomson recording,this has to be my favourite recording. The ferocity of the opening,and the thrilling,brooding,grandeur of the second movement,just have more impact for me. The Chandos recording certainly helps. But Bryden Thomson paces it,just perfectly for me. A magnificent recording! I'm listening to this recording,as part of the original box set,by the way!



My thoughts exactly. The 2nd movement on this recording is superior in both interpretation and atmosphere. Definitely Thomson and his orchestra understood this epic music.

Irons

Quote from: Christo on July 11, 2019, 04:05:18 AM

Agree about the Measham being the finest recording of the three; a pity it was never released on cd. The ABC Goossens box set is a treasure trove; still had the order it directly from Australia, fifteen years ago (for some reason ABC wasn't available in Europe, then).

After reading positive posts of the Measham recording of Goossens 1st Symphony I purchased a copy only to find it was a poor pressing which does happen time to time buying second hand vinyl. Another copy will turn up.

Watched the Ken Russell film of Bax this week. Russell himself plays Bax and the likeness is uncanny but Russell is a far better director then actor. The film was a bit arty in an old fashioned way and the acting stilted so I would not recommend it but was fascinated in a fly on the wall way. The opening was amusing with the middle-aged Bax sitting in a cinema with the equally middle-aged John Ireland. Bax is eyeing up the young ladies, and Ireland, the young men.
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

I opened the door people rushed through and I was left holding the knob - Bo Diddley.