Sir Arnold Bax

Started by tjguitar, April 15, 2007, 06:12:44 PM

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vandermolen

Quote from: Irons on July 14, 2019, 12:33:59 AM
After reading positive posts of the Measham recording of Goossens 1st Symphony I purchased a copy only to find it was a poor pressing which does happen time to time buying second hand vinyl. Another copy will turn up.

Watched the Ken Russell film of Bax this week. Russell himself plays Bax and the likeness is uncanny but Russell is a far better director then actor. The film was a bit arty in an old fashioned way and the acting stilted so I would not recommend it but was fascinated in a fly on the wall way. The opening was amusing with the middle-aged Bax sitting in a cinema with the equally middle-aged John Ireland. Bax is eyeing up the young ladies, and Ireland, the young men.
I've never come across that film before. I remember his surprisingly conventional documentary film about Vaughan Williams many years ago.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Irons

Quote from: vandermolen on July 14, 2019, 01:05:48 AM
I've never come across that film before. I remember his surprisingly conventional documentary film about Vaughan Williams many years ago.

I know of the Vaughan Williams film but have not seen it. I think there is a Mahler film too which again I have not seen.

I very much enjoyed the evocative Elgar film in black and white first shown by the BBC on their Monitor series in 1962 (I have the DVD). Russell also featured Delius in a film which is good.
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

I opened the door people rushed through and I was left holding the knob - Bo Diddley.

aukhawk

#922
And Tchaikovsky.  Played as I recall by Richard 'Dr Kildare' Chamberlain.  Not so good.

vandermolen

Quote from: aukhawk on July 14, 2019, 09:59:27 AM
And Tchaikovsky.  Played as I recall by Richard 'Dr Kildare' Chamberlain.  Not so good.
One of those 'so bad it's good' films I think.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

vandermolen

Quote from: Irons on July 14, 2019, 06:23:16 AM
I know of the Vaughan Williams film but have not seen it. I think there is a Mahler film too which again I have not seen.

I very much enjoyed the evocative Elgar film in black and white first shown by the BBC on their Monitor series in 1962 (I have the DVD). Russell also featured Delius in a film which is good.
I rather liked the Mahler film. Nuts but enjoyable.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

kyjo

It's very interesting to see the difference of opinions regarding recordings of the Bax symphonies on different sites! Here on GMG, it seems that the Thomson and various Lyrita recordings are generally regarded to be the best. On MusicWeb International, multiple reviewers seem to think the Handley cycle is the best. Lloyd-Jones' cycle seems generally agreed upon to be the weakest (though not by far), though it has received some positive reviews on Amazon in particular. It just goes to show how much variety of interpretation can be applied to Bax's music!
"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" - Sergei Rachmaninoff

relm1

I prefer Thompson to Handley's cycle fine as they both are.  I just feel Thompson's sonics are more in keeping with the mysterious moodiness of the material.  Regardless, both and Naxos cycles are very fine.

vandermolen

Quote from: relm1 on July 15, 2019, 06:41:26 AM
I prefer Thompson to Handley's cycle fine as they both are.  I just feel Thompson's sonics are more in keeping with the mysterious moodiness of the material.  Regardless, both and Naxos cycles are very fine.
I tend to agree with this. Many people rate the Handley cycle as preferable to Thomson in the VW symphonies but I much prefer Thomson's recordings.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Roasted Swan

Quote from: Irons on July 14, 2019, 06:23:16 AM
I know of the Vaughan Williams film but have not seen it. I think there is a Mahler film too which again I have not seen.

I very much enjoyed the evocative Elgar film in black and white first shown by the BBC on their Monitor series in 1962 (I have the DVD). Russell also featured Delius in a film which is good.

The Russell/Bax film is AWFUL!!!!! Indulgent rubbish and ignorant about the subject.  Arty nonsense......

cilgwyn

I'm listening to Thomson's recording of Bax's Fifth,right no! I think I,marginally,prefer this to the Lyrita recording,great as it,almost certainly,is! I love the way he gets that funny,dancey bit in the first movement (Oh g*d,I wish I was a musician,at times like this!¬ ::) Do,you know the bit I'm referring to,vandermolen? !I'll have to look at the booklet!!) And the sound quality is so sumptuous. It brings out all the glory of Bax's orchestration. The opening is superb. And I love the way he brings out the legendary,quality of the music. No wonder I was so captivated by this as a teen! :) I also think Thomson has the edge,on Lyrita,in No1! But they're both marvelous!

vandermolen

#930
Quote from: cilgwyn on July 15, 2019, 01:51:21 PM
I'm listening to Thomson's recording of Bax's Fifth,right no! I think I,marginally,prefer this to the Lyrita recording,great as it,almost certainly,is! I love the way he gets that funny,dancey bit in the first movement (Oh g*d,I wish I was a musician,at times like this!¬ ::) Do,you know the bit I'm referring to,vandermolen? !I'll have to look at the booklet!!) And the sound quality is so sumptuous. It brings out all the glory of Bax's orchestration. The opening is superb. And I love the way he brings out the legendary,quality of the music. No wonder I was so captivated by this as a teen! :) I also think Thomson has the edge,on Lyrita,in No1! But they're both marvelous!
Well cigwyn, I'm listening to Symphony 5 right now (Leppard) and am eagerly anticipating the 'funny, dancey bit' (coming up in a moment I think). I remain loyal to the Leppard recording and feel that the mysterious, brooding and gloomy opening is unrivalled and that the whole performance has an especially 'legendary' feel to it which I find captivating. It was much the same for me with Edward Downes's LSO recording of Symphony 3 with the LSO on an RCA LP (never transferred to CD - more's the pity). Also, the Leppard in its LP form, with that dreary purple abstract cover design, had a huge effect on my youthful self (as in your case too I think but perhaps with Thomson). The Thomson set is fabulous as well so I might give his recording of Symphony No.5 a listen to later.

Added later: the other thing that I especially like about the Leppard recording is that the 'liturgical theme' at the end of the work, with its affirmative sense of home-coming, is especially well realised - perhaps my favourite Bax moment in my favourite Bax symphony. No.5 is the most integrated of the seven I think.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Biffo

Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 15, 2019, 12:03:07 PM
The Russell/Bax film is AWFUL!!!!! Indulgent rubbish and ignorant about the subject.  Arty nonsense......

Russell made his reputation with the Elgar and Delius films. After that he made numerous other films about composers - Strauss, Mahler, Bruckner, Martinu etc, some for TV others for the cinema.

Replace Russell/Bax with Russell/******** and add a composer of choice he made a film about.

Irons

The big mistake Russell made was casting himself in the role of Bax. He can't act for toffee!
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

I opened the door people rushed through and I was left holding the knob - Bo Diddley.

vandermolen

Quote from: Irons on July 16, 2019, 07:07:22 AM
The big mistake Russell made was casting himself in the role of Bax. He can't act for toffee!
There is a slight resemblance  8)

"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

cilgwyn

Quote from: SymphonicAddict on July 12, 2019, 09:14:52 PM
My thoughts exactly. The 2nd movement on this recording is superior in both interpretation and atmosphere. Definitely Thomson and his orchestra understood this epic music.
Yes,the second movement of Thomson's recording,in particular,blows the earlier Lyrita reading out of the water;in terms of sheer atmosphere and the thrilling grandeur,when the music reaches it's thunderous climax. I remember,as a youngster,how that passage just get going around in my head!

Irons

Quote from: vandermolen on July 16, 2019, 08:58:08 AM
There is a slight resemblance  8)



There is! Put it this way he couldn't have played Elgar or Delius.  ;)
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

I opened the door people rushed through and I was left holding the knob - Bo Diddley.

Roasted Swan

Two unrelated bits of Baxian odds and ends.  Has anyone ever seen/read the book "Magister" by Jonathan Wylie.  It is a very odd (not very good!) fantasy novel.  The author is in fact a husband and wife double act... not that that matters a jot either way.  The really curious premise here is about a young wizard from the "Royal Academy of Magic" who discovers the lost work of Sir Edward Beck.  Basically (and this is acknowledged not me making a connection that does not exist) the idea for the book comes from Magic = Music & Beck = Bax.  Like I say just a bit odd........

My 2nd unrelated bit of Bax - I collect Bax's published sheet music and today received one of the last things I do not have - the 6 works for Piano Duet bound together in ex-public library editions.  On one level I am delighted to have found this - really tricky to come across the 2 piano sonata for example.  But on another level yet another epitaph to the loss of the extraordinary institutions that were public libraries.  This set comes from my old "home" library in Liverpool which through the darkest and most deprived times in that wonderful city had an amazing public library with a remarkable music section.  Remember that musicians such as Vernon Handley relate borrowing scores by the dozen from local libraries to study unusual and rare works.  Perhaps its my age but I love holding a score - seeing the old print.  Resources like IMSLP online are astonishing but of course subject (quite rightly) to copyright restrictions.....

vandermolen

Quote from: Irons on July 16, 2019, 11:23:18 PM
There is! Put it this way he couldn't have played Elgar or Delius.  ;)
Although he could possibly have played Tikhon Khrenninkov - an interesting potential subject for a Ken Russell film!

"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Irons

Quote from: vandermolen on July 17, 2019, 02:42:44 AM
Although he could possibly have played Tikhon Khrenninkov - an interesting potential subject for a Ken Russell film!


Indeed. State before art.

Like Shostakovich, Bax always seemed to strike a serious pose when photographed. I love this as he actually appears happy enjoying a drink and company in an Irish pub.

You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

I opened the door people rushed through and I was left holding the knob - Bo Diddley.

vandermolen

#939
Quote from: Irons on July 17, 2019, 07:46:13 AM
Indeed. State before art.

Like Shostakovich, Bax always seemed to strike a serious pose when photographed. I love this as he actually appears happy enjoying a drink and company in an Irish pub.


That's a lovely photo of Bax which I've never seen before. Thanks for posting it Lol. Bax actually lived in 'The White Horse' pub in Storrington, not too far from here in his final years.There is a commemorative plaque on the outside of the pub and a few Baxian bits and pieces inside.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).