Sir Arnold Bax

[Sean]

Cheers folks. Thoroughly recommend the Double piano sonata also- intoxicating stuff, with the concluding chords some of the most radiant in all music.

[rubio]

I just listened to this recording borrowed from the library. I find it very interesting and colourful, but the problem is that all of the 3rd movement is unlistenable due to a large scratch mark on the CD.



I really would like to buy an excellent version of this symphony, and I wonder if this could be the top of the heap?

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I own the Thomson and the Handley - both are very good (pity about the scratch!). I have read only positive things about the Lyrita. But Vandermolen or Dundonnell or others will undoubtedly know this performance, so just wait for their comments...

[vandermolen]

I own the Thomson and the Handley - both are very good (pity about the scratch!). I have read only positive things about the Lyrita. But Vandermolen or Dundonnell or others will undoubtedly know this performance, so just wait for their comments...

The Raymond Leppard on Lyrita  is indeed the best version (in my view anyway). It is a deeply moving and searching performance which makes the best possible case for this enigmatic score. The Epilogue is especially moving. I love this symphony. In spirit it reminds me a bit of Vaughan Williams Symphony 9, another valedictory score. If you don't want to pay full price, there is a very good Naxos CD with a fine performance of Tintagel. Rymond Leppard's recording of Bax's 5th Symphony, on another Lyrita CD is in a class of its own. The Lyrita recording of Symphony 7 is especially valuable as it is coupled with Myer Fredman's terrific version of the turbulent 1st Symphony, so I don't think that you would regret the purchase.

[Dundonnell]

The Raymond Leppard on Lyrita  is indeed the best version (in my view anyway). It is a deeply moving and searching performance which makes the best possible case for this enigmatic score. The Epilogue is especially moving. I love this symphony. In spirit it reminds me a bit of Vaughan Williams Symphony 9, another valedictory score. If you don't want to pay full price, there is a very good Naxos CD with a fine performance of Tintagel. Rymond Leppard's recording of Bax's 5th Symphony, on another Lyrita CD is in a class of its own. The Lyrita recording of Symphony 7 is especially valuable as it is coupled with Myer Fredman's terrific version of the turbulent 1st Symphony, so I don't think that you would regret the purchase.

I don't actually know the Leppard version of the 7th symphony(I do have the Thomson and Lloyd-Jones versions and can recommend those) but it is very highly regarded. Actually, I have to admit, that I have never taken to the 7th in the way I do respond to the 1st, 2nd, 5th and 6th.

I would very much agree with vandermolen however about Leppard's version of the 5th and Fredman's 1st(both of which i have in the original Lyrita LP incarnations). What a superb job both these conductors did in reviving interest in Bax with their tremendous performances! It is a pity that Raymond Leppard seemed to disappear off to Indianapolis and cease recording British music. Fredman was an early Lyrita 'house conductor' and what a good one he was! His performances of Havergal Brian are amongst the best of that composer's music. Again, a great shame that we have not heard more of him on disc in more recent years.

[Sean]

The Seventh is a powerful and strange work to close the cycle: I know it from the Thomson, who finds much of the unusual colour and mood.

[vandermolen]

I don't actually know the Leppard version of the 7th symphony(I do have the Thomson and Lloyd-Jones versions and can recommend those) but it is very highly regarded. Actually, I have to admit, that I have never taken to the 7th in the way I do respond to the 1st, 2nd, 5th and 6th.

I would very much agree with vandermolen however about Leppard's version of the 5th and Fredman's 1st(both of which i have in the original Lyrita LP incarnations). What a superb job both these conductors did in reviving interest in Bax with their tremendous performances! It is a pity that Raymond Leppard seemed to disappear off to Indianapolis and cease recording British music. Fredman was an early Lyrita 'house conductor' and what a good one he was! His performances of Havergal Brian are amongst the best of that composer's music. Again, a great shame that we have not heard more of him on disc in more recent years.

Totally agree about Leppard and Fredman. I sent a fan email to Fredman not long ago and had a very nice reply, mentioning the difficults of recording Britten's Sinfonia da Requiem in a freezing warehouse in New Zealand! I regretted the same things as Dundonnell and he mentioned that he had made a recording of Bax's Third Symphony that had appeared on LP many years ago. Maybe this will make it to CD one day.

[Dundonnell]

Totally agree about Leppard and Fredman. I sent a fan email to Fredman not long ago and had a very nice reply, mentioning the difficults of recording Britten's Sinfonia da Requiem in a freezing warehouse in New Zealand! I regretted the same things as Dundonnell and he mentioned that he had made a recording of Bax's Third Symphony that had appeared on LP many years ago. Maybe this will make it to CD one day.

Myer Fredman has his own website-http://people.aapt.net.au/~mfredman/

Sadly, it shows just how little music he has been asked to put on disc!

[vandermolen]

Here, apropos of nothing, are my favourite Bax symphony recordings:

No 1: LPO Fredman (Lyrita)

No 2: Goosens: New Symphony Orchestra (Dutton) Historical Recording 1956

No 3: LSO Downes (unavailable on CD) RCA

No 4: Ulster Orchestra Thomson (Chandos)

No 5 LPO Leppard (Lyrita)

No 6 New PO Del Mar (Lyrita) or RSNO Lloyd-Jones (Naxos)

No 7 LPO Leppard (Lyrita)

If you want a box set get the Vernon Handley BBC Phil. one on Chandos
If you want a budget set, the Lloyd-Jones on Naxos are good too.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Here, apropos of nothing, are my favourite Bax symphony recordings:

No 1: LPO Fredman (Lyrita)

No 2: Goosens: New Symphony Orchestra (Dutton) Historical Recording 1956

No 3: LSO Downes (unavailable on CD) RCA

No 4: Ulster Orchestra Thomson (Chandos)

No 5 LPO Leppard (Lyrita)

No 6 New PO Del Mar (Lyrita) or RSNO Lloyd-Jones (Naxos)

No 7 LPO Leppard (Lyrita)

If you want a box set get the Vernon Handley BBC Phil. one on Chandos
If you want a budget set, the Lloyd-Jones on Naxos are good too.

Interesting list, Jeffrey. I only know (or will know quite soon...) two of them - 3 and 4. The others I have only read about. I have Handley, Thomson and a few by Lloyd-Jones. If Fredman is better in the First than Handley, I don't think I'll survive the experience... I read about the Goossens that his tempi are rather fast, that it's a very fiery reading. Correct? Re the Del Mar Sixth - does he really bring off that massive climax in the last movement which some consider the summit of all Bax's symphonies? Handley comes close, but I am still not as blown away as I would have liked...

P.S. Just listened to No. 3 conducted by Sir Edward Downes - it really is as good as I remembered it and you say it is. Everything sounds unforced and natural. Yes - great performance.

[vandermolen]

Interesting list, Jeffrey. I only know (or will know quite soon...) two of them - 3 and 4. The others I have only read about. I have Handley, Thomson and a few by Lloyd-Jones. If Fredman is better in the First than Handley, I don't think I'll survive the experience... I read about the Goossens that his tempi are rather fast, that it's a very fiery reading. Correct? Re the Del Mar Sixth - does he really bring off that massive climax in the last movement which some consider the summit of all Bax's symphonies? Handley comes close, but I am still not as blown away as I would have liked...

P.S. Just listened to No. 3 conducted by Sir Edward Downes - it really is as good as I remembered it and you say it is. Everything sounds unforced and natural. Yes - great performance.

The Fredman No 1 is different to the Handley but not necessarily better and the Handley recording is better. Maybe it's just that I grew up with the Fredman. The Goosens is great (No 2), very stormy and it comes with a marvellous version of Tintagel (premiere recording from 1929), which has been brilliantly transferreed. Glad you are enjoying the Downes No 3.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

My fellow Baxians! I have uploaded a rip of the long OOP Third Symphony and The Happy Forest under Sir Edward Downes to Rapidshare (courtesy of a generous fellow poster), so that you can enjoy those performances too.

The Happy Forest:

http://rapidshare.com/files/108660277/1_The_Happy_Forest.mp3

Symphony No. 3:

http://rapidshare.com/files/108660278/2_I_Lento_moderato_-_Allegro_moderato_-_Allegro_feroce.mp3

http://rapidshare.com/files/108660279/3_II_Lento.mp3

http://rapidshare.com/files/108660280/4_III_Moderato_-_Epilogue__Poco_lento.mp3

[vandermolen]

In praise of Bax's Fourth Symphony

Allegedly the "weakest" of the seven (all the books/CD guides say so) but I find that I listen to it more than the others at the moment. I accept that it is more diffuse but it has all the ingredients of his finest works, dreamlike, mystical episodes and, in the last movement, an entirely characteristic pagan march.

Any other views?

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I only listened to the Fourth once (Thomson). I'll have to listen to it again, choosing the Handley for a change, to have any opinion on it...

Later: I think the first two movements are fine, although you do get a sense Bax is taking a holiday. The first movement has all the joy of Paean combined with the dreaminess of some of the symphonic poems. Of course, there isn't much at stake here, but the music is excellent all the same. The same goes for the second movement. The last movement is the slightest, in my opinion, understandably so - as there hasn't been any struggle, the festivities from the first movement are simply resumed and developed. I like the sound of it, but there isn't much sense... 

All in all, the Fourth Symphony is a work that if any other composer had written it, people would call masterly and colourful, albeit not very deep.

Bax almost did himself a disservice by writing three powerful symphonies first...

[rubio]

How is this Barbirolli 3rd?

[bhodges]

How is this Barbirolli 3rd?

Sorry, can't answer your query, but that is one beautiful cover!

I'd be interested to know, too.  I have a few Dutton discs and given that they are historical recordings, they are exemplary.

--Bruce

[rubio]

Sorry, can't answer your query, but that is one beautiful cover!

--Bruce

Yes, it could be almost worth it just because of that!

[Sean]

Rather briefly on this, I feel the Fourth is possibly Bax's greatest symphony, certainly the one I've played most, maybe 25-30 times, with some of his most Dionysian and sensual thought. It may be diffuse, but not in the sense that the material is uncertain and at one time I could long stretches of it through in my head. The slow movement certainly isn't as interesting as that of the Third or First (of course).

The Violin concerto I see as a weaker piece. No matter how much I returned to it it didn't materialise for me; the Cello concerto despite its uneveness is a much higher and more characteristic level of invention.

Also Winter Legends was somewhat disappointing after the heights of Symphonic variations.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Rather briefly on this, I feel the Fourth is possibly Bax's greatest symphony, certainly the one I've played most, maybe 25-30 times, with some of his most Dionysian and sensual thought. It may be diffuse, but not in the sense that the material is uncertain and at one time I could long stretches of it through in my head. The slow movement certainly isn't as interesting as that of the Third or First (of course).

How do you square 'possibly Bax's greatest' with 'slow movement certainly isn't as interesting', Sean? Wouldn't that diminish its overall quality? Or is 'interesting' less of a recommendation than 'Dionysian' or 'sensual' however 'diffuse'?

[vandermolen]

Thanks v much Sean and Johan for taking up my question about views on Bax's 4th. it's odd that I too find myself listening to it more than the others at the moment.