Sir Arnold Bax

Started by tjguitar, April 15, 2007, 06:12:44 PM

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Lethevich

I would love the Chandos disc, I have the Hyperion and it's excellent. The pieces are on the whole bright and airy, presenting a quite different side of Bax to his orchestral music.
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

vandermolen

Quote from: Lethe on June 19, 2010, 10:03:42 PM
I would love the Chandos disc, I have the Hyperion and it's excellent. The pieces are on the whole bright and airy, presenting a quite different side of Bax to his orchestral music.

The Harp Quintet in particular is classic Bax - perhaps my favourite of his chamber works. The Hyperion CD is especially good.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Mirror Image

I own the entire Chandos and Naxos orchestral series. Both series are great, but I think the Chandos series is superior because I think Handley and Thomson had a better handle on Bax's music. Both Bax symphony sets are also fantastic. Unfortunately, the Thomson has been out-of-print for quite some time. I was fortunate enough to find it in "like new" condition from an Amazon seller. My favorite Bax recording is "Volume 2" of the Chandos series that has the composition "Spring Fire" on it. Man, this is such a fantastic composition that pulls you in from the opening measures.

I only own one disc of Bax's chamber works and it's fantastic:


Daverz

Quote from: Martin Lind on June 19, 2010, 07:03:21 PM
I enjoy Tintagle alot ( an old recording with Boult). When I started with the symphonies, I started with the 1st and 3rd. Difficult stuff. I can enjoy them now, but still think that there is greater music. But the 2nd disc left me completely cold, the 2nd symphony bored me endlessly and when I started the 4th it was not better.

The 6th is the one that really stands out for me, though I did go through an obsession with the 3rd.  I haven't heard Thomson in the 6th, but Lloyd-Jones, Handley, and Del Mar are all good.  (I can't downgrade Lloyd-Jones in this music or any other English music.)

I've always loved Tintagel, but two other stand outs are The Garden of Fand and November Woods.  All these are on Boult's Lyrita disc.

SonicMan46

Quote from: Mirror Image on June 24, 2010, 03:39:02 PM
I own the entire Chandos and Naxos orchestral series. Both series are great, but I think the Chandos series is superior because I think Handley and Thomson had a better handle on Bax's music. Both Bax symphony sets are also fantastic. Unfortunately, the Thomson has been out-of-print for quite some time. I was fortunate enough to find it in "like new" condition from an Amazon seller. My favorite Bax recording is "Volume 2" of the Chandos series that has the composition "Spring Fire" on it. Man, this is such a fantastic composition that pulls you in from the opening measures.

I only own one disc of Bax's chamber works and it's fantastic:

 

MI - own the Chandos Symphony set (and the chamber disc shown) - enjoy!  I actually have a half dozen or so of Bax chamber music, including SQs & Violin Sonatas, but would recommend the disc inserted above w/ the Nash Ensemble - quite enjoyable -  :)

Mirror Image

Quote from: SonicMan on June 24, 2010, 04:29:45 PM
MI - own the Chandos Symphony set (and the chamber disc shown) - enjoy!  I actually have a half dozen or so of Bax chamber music, including SQs & Violin Sonatas, but would recommend the disc inserted above w/ the Nash Ensemble - quite enjoyable -  :)

I've been looking at other Bax recordings and that recorded you put next to the one I inserted was one of them. Thanks for the heads up. :D

Right now, I've got around 11 recordings on the way and I have a hundred or so I haven't even heard yet, so I've got a lot of catching up to do.

Scarpia

#346
Quote from: Scarpia on June 19, 2010, 09:33:48 PM
I realized I have no Bax other than the symphonies, and found these two release at very attractive prices (second hand). 





This order arrived and I have started with the Nash Ensemble disc, the Nonet.

My first impression is that it is really fine music.   If you listen to it with a Beethovenesq ear you might find it meandering, but approached in the right frame of mind, the progression of moods is very engaging, and the sonorities in themselves are striking and wonderfully atmospheric.  Brings to mind some pieces by Finzi or Delius.

vandermolen

Symphony No 5 is my favourite. The most integrated of the seven.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Scarpia



Still working my way through this one.  The only piece that hasn't engaged me so far is the elegaic trio for flute, viola and harp.  The Oboe Quintet and Clarinet sonata both had immediate appeal.  The clarinet sonata, in particular is not a "heavy" piece, mostly lyrical with flowing melodies and on the whole gentle harmonies, but there is a lot of wonderful melodic invention there.  The high point of the oboe quintet strikes me as the slow movement, which begin with and extended and richly harmonized melody presented by the string quartet before the oboe enters.  Beautiful stuff.

Lethevich



Has anybody heard this?
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

vandermolen

Quote from: Lethe on August 29, 2010, 01:43:20 PM


Has anybody heard this?

Yes, I have this CD - love it, as I'm a great fan of the looming catastrophe of Bax's Symphony No 2 and Goossens' 'Tintagel' is a great performance too. Old recordings, but full of atmosphere.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Lethevich

Thanks - it's pretty good value on Amazon atm, so I will pick it up next order :)
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

vandermolen

Quote from: Lethe on August 31, 2010, 05:52:20 AM
Thanks - it's pretty good value on Amazon atm, so I will pick it up next order :)

Am sure you wont regret it. Let us know what you think. As a rule I like Goossens' performances (Manfred Symphony, VW London Symphony, Antheil Symphony 4 etc)
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Lethevich

Will do. I've found symphonies 2-4 somewhat tough to crack, but I am hoping eventually that one performance will win me over.

I just ran into an interesting contemporary review of Bax's 1st symphony from this blog. I will reproduce in full, as it was simply quoted by them anyway, but do visit the chap, he has written lots on British composers, and plenty on Bax:

QuoteBax is responsible for the most arresting novelty of the season, a Symphony No.1, given under Albert Coates by the London Symphony Orchestra at their fourth concert [4th November 1922]. This is a three-movement work, corresponding in conception to three main moods-strife, lamentation, and exultation-respectively. It is an intensely personal type of work; but the composer synthesised what might otherwise have been rather obscure significances into such clearly-defined, though broad frescoes of musical imagery, that the work remains purely musical, and yet achieves its expressive function by direct sensatory impact-by thematic, harmonic, and orchestral colour, and rhythmic force.
Typically Celtic in thematic content, the bard-like quality of its subjects is emphasised by their generally declamatory character; and over the whole work pervades that high spirit of drama, tragedy and heroism which, even more rare than Greek art, is epitomised in such soul-gripping legends as that of Conary Mor in the ancient Red Branch Cycle of Ireland. This is the type of conception most universal to the Celtic race, Erse, Brythonic and Gael; and this work of Bax is peculiarly significant in that it provides conclusive counter-proof to the Saxon allegations of the dream-bound and esoteric nature of Celtic inspiration.

For it is not so generally recognised as it should be that the Celtic genius is responsible for some of the most vigorous elements of British tradition, from the early polyphony which culminated in the Tudor era, and the mythology which laid the foundations of medieval chivalry and the Morte d'Arthur to which English literature, from Spenser to Tennyson, owes so much.

- Leigh Henry, The Chesterian January 1923 p.115
It sounds rather bizarre by modern standards, but it's nice that he likes it, although how anybody can find anything Celtic sounding in that symphony - let alone enough to dedicate half the review to discussing - impresses me.

His enthusiasm does make me want to re-listen to the work, which I neglect despite it being a staggering achivement, really. Extremely bold, with a sharp definition in its writing, even though it is not in his more familiar later musical language (I could see an argument to claim this is his most structured and clearly penned symphony) that he seems to have developed first in his early tone poems. Despite the relative aggression of the first movement, I recall the work being emotionally rounded with a sizable amount of changes in tone. Too tired to do it today, hopefully I am still in the mood to do so tomorrow...
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

vandermolen

I like Symphony No 1 more and more and thanks for posting the interesting review. The Chandos CD with Bryden Thomson conducting Symphony No 1 and 'Christmas Eve' is one of my all-time favourite Bax discs.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Elgarian



Inspired by a conversation with Lethe and DavidRoss, I've dug out my played-once-only Handley box of the Bax symphonies, with a view to finding out the following:
(a) If I cease to regard Tintagel as a complete work, but use it as an introduction to something (following an interesting Lethe observation), will I be able to break out of my personal prejudice that finds it 10 minutes too long?
(b) Is there any chance that a second listening to the 7th symphony will be any more successful than my first, a year or so ago?

Disc 4 of the Handley box conveniently puts Tintagel just before the 7th, so with CD4 out in the garden with me this sunny afternoon, I had all I needed.

Tintagel lasted about 7 minutes before I brought it to a premature end. What brilliant promise at the beginning, and what a let-down to follow. No, it's still not for me. After - what - ten hopeful listenings over the years, it's just not going to work for me, is it?

On then to the symphony. I listened to the whole of the first movement, and there are some interesting things in there, but, typically, I couldn't somehow get a grip on anything. About 4 minutes in, for instance, there's the beginning of a rather beautiful tune, but it speedily disintegrates and I can't pick up any traces of it thereafter. This is my problem with this music. I feel as if I'm being continually shown little gems that are then dashed away out of sight never to be heard of again. I'm sure it's not really like that - but if they're there, I can't find them. I feel as if this is brilliant soundtrack writing - if it were accompanying a suitable movie, I'd think it was wonderful - but I just can't keep interested in it, as music. I want to do something else while I'm listening: ride a bike, look at paintings, do the washing up, maybe.

I gave up halfway through the slow movement and skipped onto the last one, expecting nothing but more of the same. And suddenly, here was a tune. And suddenly I could hear him doing things with it - really interesting things, with marvellous swings of mood. I started to wonder if he was making some kind of personal statement about English music - I'd swear I caught a whiff of Cockaigne in there, and another whiff of the breezy side of RVW, and even a dash of Holst, all rather thoughtfully delivered. Rightly or not, and despite losing the thread about halfway through, this is definitely the closest I've ever been to real enjoyment of Bax's music. I actually listened to that last movement again after it finished even though my second cup of coffee had gone cold.

Now this just might be the breakthrough I've been hoping for. It's very delicately poised, and I'm not sure what to do next (perhaps a second listen to the whole symphony again in a few days' time), but this turned out to be an OK way to spend my afternoon in the garden, even though at the start, things didn't bode well.

Lethevich

Awesome! I had a similar experience with the finale of the 6th - this brief little tune emerged, I think a quote from Sibelius or Tchaikovsky, I cannot recall, but it sounded very familiar. It was so prominent that I mentally pinned down its position in the structure, then kind of worked outward. These little footholds (or musical signposts) are the main method I use to try to come to terms with Bax's larger structures.

I admire how you are diving into one of the toughest composers of this generation. The sound is all there, anybody can hear Bax and understand "here's a guy with things to say, and quite some orchestral mastery", but actually being able to pick through it is another matter. Bax doesn't offer much in the way of help compared to many others somewhat closer to RVW or Britten's ideals of clarity.
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

Elgarian

Quote from: Lethe on September 01, 2010, 12:21:51 PM
These little footholds (or musical signposts) are the main method I use to try to come to terms with Bax's larger structures.
In that final movement - am I imagining those little teasing reminiscences of other English composers, or are they really there? Do you hear those? A touch of nobilmente, a dab of bright and breezy folkiness, a hint of The Planets. They're so fleeting that it could just be me being wishful, but although they only last mere seconds, they seem quite vivid. And more to the point, they make me warm to the man - the acknowledgement of the shared heritage, or something.

Lethevich

#358
I think that the variations form may have forced him to provide a greater section-by-section contrast than usual. The finale is indeed a remarkable movement, and I think I may get part of what you mean: the loud parts aren't so much elemental brass avalanches, but somewhat more under-control swagger - definitely shades of more conventionally structured music - the planets, Elgar's overtures, etc.

The 7th is his most elusive symphony. Some call it an epilogue or coda, either implying or outright calling it a decline from the previous works. I find it different in how the composer no longer seems to struggle with the music - a struggle culminating in the entire 6th symphony, by which time he may have found some catharsis. The first movement of the 7th is effortless, with that Tintagel-esque introduction, the confident seascape first movement (if the 6th's introduction represents a sea storm as some feel, this could represent the preceding [Edit: I really said that? Make that 'following'] inevitable return to normality). The slow movement is perhaps the easiest of Bax's for me to take due to its proximity between two such lively outer movements. It's wistful, and requires patience, but that is in tune with the rest of the work which sometimes seems to confound even fans of the composer's previous symphonies. With this newfound confidence, and perhaps a retrospective mood of the composer, it makes more sense for the finale to look back not only to the composer's previous music, but maybe the music of his compatriots. This is unsubstantiated, but nice to think.

By the way, an article that may be of more than a little interest to you: Bax & Elgar.
Peanut butter, flour and sugar do not make cookies. They make FIRE.

drogulus

Quote from: vandermolen on June 25, 2010, 03:48:39 AM
Symphony No 5 is my favourite. The most integrated of the seven.

     I'm coming around to this one, though I really like No. 2. All of them are worthwhile, so I'll probably gravitate to each one of them in time.

Quote from: Elgarian on September 01, 2010, 01:30:32 PM
In that final movement - am I imagining those little teasing reminiscences of other English composers, or are they really there? Do you hear those? A touch of nobilmente, a dab of bright and breezy folkiness, a hint of The Planets. They're so fleeting that it could just be me being wishful, but although they only last mere seconds, they seem quite vivid. And more to the point, they make me warm to the man - the acknowledgement of the shared heritage, or something.

     One of the symphonies has an insanely obvious tribute to Delius. He really nails him, too.
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