Sir Arnold Bax

[Lethevich]

[This is a reply to a discussion in the RVW thread, not because that talk was derailing the thread, but because it would be nice to give this one some attention ]

I do consider the sixth to be his best symphony, although it's difficult to really try to be objective about such maddeningly great/limited music - to be a fan of the composer already requires a leap of faith.

The immediate opening petering out as it does feels to me typically Baxian - it doesn't keep ticking along like a Beethoven symphony, and has its detours, but the way the music is structured I found very powerful in its undulations. The whole first movement (his most formally tight symphonic movement, perhaps) has a great line running through where, for once, Bax's sometimes difficult to contextualise moments of quiet beauty and loud climaxes find a successful method of delivery - they alternate, with the cue for that in place with the opening 'march' element fading out, then returning in different themes.

I think that the first movement could be considered as two-parts - the alternations feeding off the dying energy of the opening in the first half, then that quieter section beyond the middle being interrupted by the outburst at (7:20, 7:32 in Handley), mirroring in a way the moment at 2:15 in which the rumbling momentum is sliced by that thunderclap, reminding you of the turbulent opening before leading towards a more emotionally moderate conclusion. The brass flurries at 9:22 are another example of Bax as a fine writer of tunes* and artfully lead the movement towards a conclusion which Bax's symphonism requires - a somewhat conventional, blazing close. It is at this point that I think that Bax only just escapes failure by the skin of his teeth, but it works because it is so abrupt. If it took any longer, the effect would be lessened.

The rest of the work is difficult for me to criticise. The slow movement is concise and brilliant, with a fine arch. The finale is so Mahlerian in its world-grasping that I can't begin to suggest where it is right or wrong, it's an inspiring journey. I particularly admire its extended periods of gentility, recalling the sunny fifth symphony.

*and a great structuralist - they faintly recall various gestures in the first half - for example, I found that moments such as the chugging woodwind backing to the march at 0:35 (this is potential tin-foil hat time) sort of plant the seed for this moment towards the end, which if you anticipate it arriving really seems to clarify a lot of what the start was working towards. Key is that until that 9:23 moment, I can't recall any so clear of a demarcating gesture, excluding the 2:15 outburst.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I'll give the Sixth another listen coming weekend (Lloyd-Jones and Handley). Great post, Sara!

[DavidW]

The sixth is my favorite symphony... good post Lethe.

[cilgwyn]

I know Handley,amongst others,regarded Bax's Sixth as his best (or greatest?),but until I heard the Classico it was never one of my favourites. Now it is,so thank you to Classico,Bostock & his Munich forces (come on,please do some more!). Pity the Classico series conked out. I was hoping they'd do a Havergal Brian symphony.
Of course,the Classico performance shouldn't really have been the one to convert me. Perhaps they just 'got me' at the right time.
Okay,back to those 'Blossom Dearie' cd's...........

[cilgwyn]

By the way,did someone REALLY mention in the V-W thread that Bax's Second is going to be performed at the Proms or am I just 'seeing things'? I've actually fantasised about Prom performances of this one*, (also the 1st,which is superb,but slightly let down by the finale). That unforgettable opening. (Come to think of it,Bax was a bit of a dab hand at arresting openings)2. I suppose (if it IS true) the Beeb won't be televising that one either. Grrrr!

* You know,with all the audience sitting there.
2 But maybe not such a dab hand with endings!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

By the way,did someone REALLY mention in the V-W thread that Bax's Second is going to be performed at the Proms or am I just 'seeing things'? I've actually fantasised about Prom performances of this one*, (also the 1st,which is superb,but slightly let down by the finale). That unforgettable opening. (Come to think of it,Bax was a bit of a dab hand at arresting openings)2. I suppose (if it IS true) the Beeb won't be televising that one either. Grrrr!

* You know,with all the audience sitting there.
2 But maybe not such a dab hand with endings!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/proms/whats-on/2011/august-16/50

[vandermolen]

By the way,did someone REALLY mention in the V-W thread that Bax's Second is going to be performed at the Proms or am I just 'seeing things'? I've actually fantasised about Prom performances of this one*, (also the 1st,which is superb,but slightly let down by the finale). That unforgettable opening. (Come to think of it,Bax was a bit of a dab hand at arresting openings)2. I suppose (if it IS true) the Beeb won't be televising that one either. Grrrr!

* You know,with all the audience sitting there.
2 But maybe not such a dab hand with endings!

Yes, I mentioned it and Johan has provided the link - I hope to be there.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Yes, I mentioned it and Johan has provided the link - I hope to be there.

Booking is now open...

[cilgwyn]

Thank you. I clicked on the link for the Bax. When I saw that photo it flashed through my mind that I might be on a rather different kind of site ()!,but,yes,that is Bax 2,in there! Well,fancy that! I always thought if there was going to be a Bax at the Proms it should be No 1 or 2,with No 2 as my first choice because of the weak finale of No 1 (but maybe only because the preceding movement is so magnificent).
Brian and Bax at the Proms,though?! What's happening at the Beeb?

[cilgwyn]

What next? Bantock? Stanley Bate?!!!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Thank you. I clicked on the link for the Bax. When I saw that photo it flashed through my mind that I might be on a rather different kind of site ()!,but,yes,that is Bax 2,in there! Well,fancy that! I always thought if there was going to be a Bax at the Proms it should be No 1 or 2,with No 2 as my first choice because of the weak finale of No 1 (but maybe only because the preceding movement is so magnificent).
Brian and Bax at the Proms,though?! What's happening at the Beeb?

I don't find the Finale of No. 1 weak at all, especially not under Thomson.    There are even shades of Brian in the coda, to these ears at least. I think the movement rounds the symphony off in a very satisfying manner...

[cilgwyn]

I'm not complaining. It all sounds pretty good to me! I'm always defending the Bax symphonies. I'm just aware of the fact that allot of criticism (not here) gets aimed at his 'final movements & while I'm quite happy with the last movement of Bax's 1st,I do feel that the ending of the Second is more satisfying,which is why I'm glad they picked the second. I feel the nit picking critics will have less to moan about,and concert performances of Bax's symphonies need all the encouragement they can get.  At the same time the first two movements are so good I do feel the inspiration dips a little afterwards,but not so much because Bax is getting short of good ideas,but because the first two movements are so shattering in their intensity. When I 'listen' to the symphony in my head,it's always the first two movements that I tend to 'replay'.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I'm not complaining. It all sounds pretty good to me! I'm always defending the Bax symphonies. I'm just aware of the fact that allot of criticism (not here) gets aimed at his 'final movements & while I'm quite happy with the last movement of Bax's 1st,I do feel that the ending of the Second is more satisfying,which is why I'm glad they picked the second. I feel the nit picking critics will have less to moan about,and concert performances of Bax's symphonies need all the encouragement they can get.  At the same time the first two movements are so good I do feel the inspiration dips a little afterwards,but not so much because Bax is getting short of good ideas,but because the first two movements are so shattering in their intensity. When I 'listen' to the symphony in my head,it's always the first two movements that I tend to 'replay'.

Oh, but I agree - the greatest weight is in the first two movements. The last movement is more in the spirit of 'Let festivities commence!'

[cilgwyn]

Yes,it's like a well earned release.

[vandermolen]

Thank you. I clicked on the link for the Bax. When I saw that photo it flashed through my mind that I might be on a rather different kind of site ()!,but,yes,that is Bax 2,in there! Well,fancy that! I always thought if there was going to be a Bax at the Proms it should be No 1 or 2,with No 2 as my first choice because of the weak finale of No 1 (but maybe only because the preceding movement is so magnificent).
Brian and Bax at the Proms,though?! What's happening at the Beeb?

I was there in 1984 when Bax's 5th Symphony was performed at the Proms (Raymond Leppard) - that was the last time a Bax symphony was performed there I suspect.

[vandermolen]

Just ordered some tickets for Bax's Second Symphony at the Proms on 16th August - very pleased about that. I bought the cheapest at £7.50 and there seem to be lots of seats available. Only 11 people in the online queue when I checked this morning.

[vandermolen]

What next? Bantock? Stanley Bate?!!!

Well, I heard the Moeran Symphony at the Proms last year!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Just ordered some tickets for Bax's Second Symphony at the Proms on 16th August - very pleased about that. I bought the cheapest at £7.50 and there seem to be lots of seats available. Onl 11 people in the online queue when I checked this mornig.

If I didn't live so far away, I'd pay London a second visit. I'll make do with listening live online...

[snyprrr]

Is there a Bax work that sounds like Faure?

[Lethevich]

Is there a Bax work that sounds like Faure?

Not that I have encountered - his French influence comes mainly from Debussy, and primarily only in a harmonic sense.