Sir Arnold Bax

Started by tjguitar, April 15, 2007, 06:12:44 PM

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Sean

I've been on a couple of Bax pilgrimages in recent years, to Glencolumbkille in Donegal county northwest Ireland, and to Morar in west Scotland. He travelled annually in the summer or winter to these for about two and a half and one decade up to the war. Hey I've also been to Moscow and St Petersburg where he lived for a year, and I used to live in East Sussex, next to West where he was in later years.

This is the house he used, near the sea at Glencolumbkille- I walked 25km to get here instead of waiting for the evening bus!



Unfortunately this is the only photo of mine here but it's an evocative place, a vast bowl of a valley of rugged rocks by a gentle coastal inlet which at times also sees some extreme conditions; it has phallical stone imagery around from 6th century St Columba's day, or before, I'm not sure- the place has been used for many thousands of years...

This is the Station Hotel in little Morar town, next to a little railway station; it was renamed Morar Hotel some years ago.



The lobby


Typical nearby scenery


From Wiki

Glencolumbkille map
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/53/Ireland_location_map.svg/481px-Ireland_location_map.svg.png

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c2/Cottages_glencolmcille.jpg/800px-Cottages_glencolmcille.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8b/TrabaneStrand1.jpg/800px-TrabaneStrand1.jpg

Morar map
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/27/Lochaber_UK_location_map.svg/800px-Lochaber_UK_location_map.svg.png


vandermolen

I live in Sussex and have been to The White Horse pub in Storrington a couple of times, where Bax spent his final years  There is a commemorative plaque to Bax outside and a few photos of Bax and some of his music in frames on the walls.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Sean

That's more than there was at the Morar Hotel- their website talks about Bax but instead of a statue, plaque or some pride in a national cultural figure the reception staff thought I was bit nuts; there was a guy in the back they found who knew a bit more though. Sums philistine Britain up.

J.Z. Herrenberg

Thanks for the pictures, Sean, and for reminding Britons of one of their excellent composers!
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

Sean

I kept a journal during my week in Ireland- here are the paragraphs for Glencolumbkille...

The onward bus the next day from Killibeggs isn't till the evening so carrying only my small shoulder bag I decide to walk the last 28km to Glencolumbkille, a narrow road continuously bending round the hills, without pavements but with little traffic and fairly safe. I look down on a calm ocean disappearing off indistinctly before heading inland for increasingly bleak terrain, treeless with thin light brown grasses; the air's pure. I pass a turnoff for Kilcar with its coastal scenery but press on, getting to Carrick the only village on the road for a drink; get a little sunburn on my left side, walking north with the sun going down.

Wander off the road down to one of the lakes, scaring the sheep off a drier raised area above the somewhat dangerous waterlogged bog, deep peaty black earth with only tangled squelchy scrub on top just stopping you from sinking. I'm hot but the water's too cold for a swim and the rocky bed looks difficult to stand on- lie down a while instead. I complete my Bax pilgrimage within eight hours arriving at imposing Glencolumbkille valley, a vast rise of rock on the far side directly facing you on approach and the Atlantic shimmering in the sunset at the end of a pleasant U-shaped bay and narrow beach; village buildings are strewn widely.

Get to a fading hostel perched on a headland with only me and an old landlady- a nice view down on the bay and all quiet bar the sound of the sea to rest sore feet. In the morning hobble to the museum covering local peoples of previous centuries, the valley with its shelter and access having been inhabited for many millennia. A woman there points out the house Bax used and as I'm without a camera kindly takes my photo before it and emails it me. Gaelic is spoken.

Walk by ancient phallic stone uprights inscribed to commemorate Saint Colmcille and to the small old church with zodiacal gravestone crosses, then philosophize on rocks looking out at the sea as the tide takes it back. A dozen lines of waves break all down the bay particularly at low tide, wave after wave reflecting Bax's complex contrapuntal layering and Wagnerian repeated surges drowning the thinking mind: the music's formal irrationality ascends over groundless architectonic reconciliation. An evocative enough place, the interest in the sea's movement inexhaustible.

J.Z. Herrenberg

Nice! Very atmospheric!
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

Sean


snyprrr

ok, musical sample,... what exactly is 'Baxian'????

Sean

Hi Snyprr, well you won't find a more intense statement of passion anywhere in English music than the First symphony of Bax. Do yourself a favour though and get the Bryden Thomson recording, not Handley or Lloyd-Jones or any other such confused offerings.

snyprrr

Quote from: Sean on May 26, 2013, 10:07:46 PM
Hi Snyprr, well you won't find a more intense statement of passion anywhere in English music than the First symphony of Bax. Do yourself a favour though and get the Bryden Thomson recording, not Handley or Lloyd-Jones or any other such confused offerings.

He had a stylistic break around, what?, the 3rd Symphony? Yes, I'm probably more of a 'First Phase' Baxian then. Will check No.1/Thomson.

cilgwyn

Quote from: Sean on May 26, 2013, 10:07:46 PM
Hi Snyprr, well you won't find a more intense statement of passion anywhere in English music than the First symphony of Bax. Do yourself a favour though and get the Bryden Thomson recording, not Handley or Lloyd-Jones or any other such confused offerings.
Good! Another Bryden Thomson fan?! There are a few of us!! ;D With due respect,to the great Vernon Handley,whose Bax recordings certainly had their high points;Thomson is the one who really gets under the skin of this music. Handley's Bax works well at times. For example,the more rugged,Northern ballads,and his 'Spring Fire' is a classic! But his approach to the symphonies is too driven. Thomson allows this passionate,beautiful music time to breath,and there's nothing wrong with the Chandos recording quality! It's spectacular! It's what this music needs!
If you want to try an alternative approach,the Naxos cycle is a good bet. Allot cheaper than splashing out on that Handley box set! Chandos must think we're a bunch of suckers paying out for that,when Thomson has already done such a tremendous job!!

J.Z. Herrenberg

#511
Thomson rules. Handley may be more careful and precise, but Thomson, as you say, cilgwyn, gets under the skin of this music. The first three symphonies are my favourites (with 6 and7 not far behind), and Thomson is unforgettable in all of them. I have to listen to Fredman again (Lyrita), but so far he hasn't supplanted Thomson, either. The only real contender for No. 3 is Downes (as Jeffrey/vandermolen will agree). His recording is terrific (Chandos wins in the sonics department, though).
Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything. -- Plato

cilgwyn

I should have mentioned the celebrated Lyrita recordings! I just suggested the Naxos cycle,because they are allot cheaper than spending your cash on the Handley box,when the Thomson cycle is,despite what numerous critics would say otherwise,perfectly good, imho(and yours) and in many (most) ways,actually superior! If you want to satisfy your curiosity that much,you can buy one of those Naxos cds & still have plenty of money to pay the rent or gas! :) I actually,quite Lloyd Jones interpretations of one or two of them. No 5,for example (Oh dear,that's just one! ::) ;D)  And,the fact that the budget price could encourage people to try these symphonies,for next to nothing,IS great! Having said that,thank goodness they're allot better than those old Marco Polo productions,or they might have the opposite effect!! The good news is that the old Thomson cds can usually be bought quite cheaply s/h on Amazon or ebay if you haven't already got them. And yes,you can download them,but what's the point if you can get them cheaper (in most cases) s/h?!
What I DO miss from those Naxos interpretations,interesting as they are (and I do like the cover art! ;D) is the ferocity of the opening bars of that Thomson First,the cataclysm of the finale of the second,the glitter and opulence of the orchestration in the slower,more reflective parts. Chandos engineering might have helped to be fair,but there's more to it than that,of course!!
All right,if you're a bit short of cash,though. But the Handley box is daylight robbery imho! The cds should have been released separately. Or just pull your wallet all the way out for one of those Lyritas & be in on history in the making!
I agree with you about the Downes third. Judging from my BBC Radio Classics cd of him conducting Bantock's Pagan Symphony & Bax's Tintagel & Northern Ballads 2 & 3 (well worth seeking out) I wish he could have given us some more!
I bought the emi cd of Barbirolli's celebrated Bax 3,recently. What a spellbinder! Of course,if you're allergic to old shellac recordings you're not going to enjoy it,but I loved it. If only he could have recorded some more Bax symphonies! >:(
Oh,well! ::) :(

vandermolen

Quote from: J. Z. Herrenberg on May 27, 2013, 07:25:51 AM
Thomsen rules. Handley may be more careful and precise, but Thomsen, as you say, cilgwyn, gets under the skin of this music. The first three symphonies are my favourites (with 6 and7 not far behind), and Thomsen is unforgettable in all of them. I have to listen to Fredman again (Lyrita), but so far he hasn't supplanted Thomsen, either. The only real contender for No. 3 is Downes (as Jeffrey/vandermolen will agree). His recording is terrific (Chandos wins in the sonics department, though).

Scandalous that the Edward Downes version of Symphony No 3 (with its coupling of The Happy Forest) never made it to CD. IMHO the best performance of both works. It features in the melancholy list of great RCA recordings never released on CD, including Tjeknavorian's LSO version of Khachaturian's Symphony No.1 (much better than his ASV recording) and Morton Gould's Chicago SO version of Miaskovsky Symphony No. 21.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

cilgwyn

Indeed! And I must add Morton Gould's own sensational recording of his 'Latin American Symphonette',with the LSO (Varese Sarabande) He made it sound like a bona fide American classic. I nearly wore my copy out (as they say!). A truly sonic spectacular,in terms of performance & recording quality! Why isn't on cd?!!! >:(
(And I hasten to add. I'm not usually very excited by Gould's own compositions!)

And back to Bax!! ;D

vandermolen

#515
Another fan of Bryden Thomson here - a seriously underrated conductor. Apart from his fine Bax cycle I rate both his Vaughan Willliams and Martinu cycles very highly. One of my very favourite Bax discs is below (available for under £2.00 on UK Amazon).'Christmas Eve' and 'Nympholept' were great discoveries for me.
[asin]B000000ARU[/asin]
Here is the reissue of (more or less) the same CD, although, unfortunately, not including Thomson's fine version of 'Tintagel':
[asin]B0000DIXS1[/asin]
And here is the original release featuring 'Christmas Eve' - one of the great Bax discs:
[asin]B000025S2T[/asin]
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Sean

Hi snyprrr, those more Nordic Sibelian influences creep in after the Third symphony, and when his annual migrations switched from Ireland to Scotland. However the set of symphonies explore a well defined expressive region and were composed over a relatively narrow period 1922-39. Bax is one of the most subtle of all composers but once you sense rather than follow the logic you're can be really won over.

cilgwyn & J. Z. Herrenberg, good to read those thoughts. The Thomson Bax survey is one of the great achievements of the whole empire of recorded art music; Handley looks for structure too much when the rough sonata forms are only trellises for the luxurious Baxian sprawl that justifies itself in the moment as it develops and needs no reference to pre-compositional form. The great parallel here is Shostakovich's Fourth (1936) and indeed Bax was in Russia I think 1913, writing a scattering of works on Russian themes.

Paradoxically the most successful Handley symphony is the Fourth, which he criticizes most for formlessness when of course once you understand Bax makes it perhaps his greatest symphony. Handley finds a visceral surge in its Tristanesque intuitive flow in some ways even better than Thomson.

The Lloyd-Jones recording has demonstration class immediacy and clarity though like Handley he often presses on in wrongheaded ways.

I also know and enjoy the somewhat pastoral Barbirolli Third, and a remarkable Downs Second with the LSO, my first exposure to Bax.

vandermolen, I also went on to buy Thomson's uncompleted Vaughan Williams cycle but I couldn't disagree too much with the more negative Penguin reviews. Not that the Penguiners appreciate Bax's music all that well though...

Hattoff

Quote from: vandermolen on May 27, 2013, 07:10:18 PM
Another fan of Bryden Thomson here - a seriously underrated conductor. Apart from his fine Bax cycle I rate both his Vaughan Willliams and Martinu cycles very highly. One of my very favourite Bax discs is below (available for under £2.00 on UK Amazon).'Christmas Eve' and 'Nympholept' were great discoveries for me.
[asin]B000000ARU[/asin]
Here is the reissue of (more or less) the same CD, although, unfortunately, not including Thomson's fine version of 'Tintagel':
[asin]B0000DIXS1[/asin]
And here is the original release featuring 'Christmas Eve' - one of the great Bax discs:
[asin]B000025S2T[/asin]
I've ordered the Tintagel disc, can't go wrong at that price.
I know Tintagel and the symphonies but not much else.  Look forward to hearing the other works.

vandermolen

Quote from: Sean on May 27, 2013, 08:46:50 PM
Hi snyprrr, those more Nordic Sibelian influences creep in after the Third symphony, and when his annual migrations switched from Ireland to Scotland. However the set of symphonies explore a well defined expressive region and were composed over a relatively narrow period 1922-39. Bax is one of the most subtle of all composers but once you sense rather than follow the logic you're can be really won over.

cilgwyn & J. Z. Herrenberg, good to read those thoughts. The Thomson Bax survey is one of the great achievements of the whole empire of recorded art music; Handley looks for structure too much when the rough sonata forms are only trellises for the luxurious Baxian sprawl that justifies itself in the moment as it develops and needs no reference to pre-compositional form. The great parallel here is Shostakovich's Fourth (1936) and indeed Bax was in Russia I think 1913, writing a scattering of works on Russian themes.

Paradoxically the most successful Handley symphony is the Fourth, which he criticizes most for formlessness when of course once you understand Bax makes it perhaps his greatest symphony. Handley finds a visceral surge in its Tristanesque intuitive flow in some ways even better than Thomson.

The Lloyd-Jones recording has demonstration class immediacy and clarity though like Handley he often presses on in wrongheaded ways.

I also know and enjoy the somewhat pastoral Barbirolli Third, and a remarkable Downs Second with the LSO, my first exposure to Bax.

vandermolen, I also went on to buy Thomson's uncompleted Vaughan Williams cycle but I couldn't disagree too much with the more negative Penguin reviews. Not that the Penguiners appreciate Bax's music all that well though...

Hello Sean,

The Thomson VW cycle was not (unlike the Hickox on the same label) incomplete. Hickox very sadly died before recording symphonies 7 or 9 - although I saw him give a great performance of No 9 in London only a few weeks before his untimely death - I'm only sorry that it was not recorded. I think that Thomson is one of the few who gets VW Symphony No 6 right ('Top 1000 CD Guide' rated it their No 1 choice). He is also strong in No 4 and 9. Now Back to Bax!
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

vandermolen

Quote from: Hattoff on May 27, 2013, 09:28:31 PM
I've ordered the Tintagel disc, can't go wrong at that price.
I know Tintagel and the symphonies but not much else.  Look forward to hearing the other works.

Hattoff,

I'm sure you'll enjoy it - it is one of my most played Bax CDs and I like every work on it, especially the moving 'Christmas Eve in the Mountains' with its lovely redemptive ending, the hauntingly atmospheric 'Nympholept' (and I prefer the Thomson recording to that of Lloyd Jones), the noisy 'Paen' is great fun and even the unpromising sounding 'Festival Overture' soon arrives at a classic Baxian tune. Let us know what you think.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).