Sir Arnold Bax

Started by tjguitar, April 15, 2007, 06:12:44 PM

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Moonfish

#580
Bax: Symphony No 3              London Philharmonic/Thomson

A first listen to #3. Took a liking for the long mysterious and soft passages that reminded me a bit of RVW's 7th symphony (or is that just my imagination?).  I am new to Bax's music, but found this symphony very enjoyable and interesting. The sentiment that it is hard to remember the themes is something I simply have to agree with. Perplexing but intriguing auditory flavors definitely abound in symphony No 3.

Is there any consensus in terms of Handley, Thomson or Lloyd-Jones in terms of the "optimal" cycle? It seems as if Thomson has the most powerful gravitational field?

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"Every time you spend money you are casting a vote for the kind of world you want...."
Anna Lappé

Mirror Image

Quote from: Moonfish on February 16, 2015, 04:46:15 PM
What do you folks think about Lloyd-Jones' traversal of Bax on the Naxos label?    :-\

Not much. Thomson wins the symphony sweepstakes for me. Handley's symphony cycle is pretty good, but Handley does well in the tone poems.

Mirror Image

#582
Quote from: Moonfish on February 16, 2015, 04:52:10 PMThe sentiment that it is hard to remember the themes is something I simply have to agree with.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds some kind of fault with this as well. I'm not looking for 'big tunes' as Elgar would say, but I do listen for melody and how it relates to the harmony. I don't find much in Bax's music. It seems that he has more interest in fiddling around with the orchestra and getting various colors out of them instead of what I find to be more important which is giving the listener some kind of access point. The music is pretty much impenetrable to me. I was attracted to the elusiveness of the music initially, but this wore off rather quickly as I began wondering what direction is this music going in? A composer like Delius seems to be criticized for meandering in many of his works, but when he meanders there still seems to be a purpose there and a reason why he's doing it. With Bax, it just seems like he's doing something just for the hell of it instead of it having meaning.

Okay, I'm trying to be kinder to Bax, but it's just becoming increasingly more difficult the more music I listen to.

Moonfish

Quote from: Mirror Image on February 16, 2015, 04:54:36 PM
Not much. Thomson wins the symphony sweepstakes for me. Handley's symphony cycle is pretty good, but Handley does well in the tone poems.

Only the Thomson and the Handley symphonic cycles have been issued as sets, right? Is there any compilation of the tone poems etc or are those all currently only available as separate recordings? Just checking the waters...
I think I have Lloyd-Jones's renditions of #1 and #2 in my stacks. I recall that I liked that the tone poems were combined with the symphonies in the releases of his Naxos cycle.  :)
"Every time you spend money you are casting a vote for the kind of world you want...."
Anna Lappé

Mirror Image

Quote from: Moonfish on February 16, 2015, 05:11:30 PM
Only the Thomson and the Handley symphonic cycles have been issued as sets, right? Is there any compilation of the tone poems etc or are those all currently only available as separate recordings? Just checking the waters...
I think I have Lloyd-Jones's renditions of #1 and #2 in my stacks. I recall that I liked that the tone poems were combined with the symphonies in the releases of his Naxos cycle.  :)

Yes, only the Thomson and Handley have been issued as sets. The Lloyd-Jones has to be purchased individually. There's also a partial cycle on Lyrita. Anyway, it doesn't matter. I'm not going to be listening to Bax for a long time. I've thrown in the towel for now.

Moonfish

#585
Quote from: Mirror Image on February 16, 2015, 05:24:12 PM
Yes, only the Thomson and Handley have been issued as sets. The Lloyd-Jones has to be purchased individually. There's also a partial cycle on Lyrita. Anyway, it doesn't matter. I'm not going to be listening to Bax for a long time. I've thrown in the towel for now.

Completely Baxified after two days, John? Back to the sweet realms of Delius?   ;) 
"Every time you spend money you are casting a vote for the kind of world you want...."
Anna Lappé

Mirror Image

Quote from: Moonfish on February 16, 2015, 05:29:09 PM
Completely Baxified already? Back to the sweet realms of Delius?   ;)

Well, back to composers who actually resonate with me emotionally/intellectually. :)

Sean

Quote from: Moonfish on February 16, 2015, 04:46:15 PM
What do you folks think about Lloyd-Jones' traversal of Bax on the Naxos label?    :-\

Great recorded sound but like Handley he often misses the music's inner flow and gets confused by his training in sonata form and other structural pillars that he tries to relate the music to. I heard him speak once, a committed nice guy but Thomson's cycle is the benchmark despite occasional sluggishness.

Sean

Quote from: Mirror Image on February 16, 2015, 05:01:33 PM
I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds some kind of fault with this as well. I'm not looking for 'big tunes' as Elgar would say, but I do listen for melody and how it relates to the harmony. I don't find much in Bax's music. It seems that he has more interest in fiddling around with the orchestra and getting various colors out of them instead of what I find to be more important which is giving the listener some kind of access point. The music is pretty much impenetrable to me. I was attracted to the elusiveness of the music initially, but this wore off rather quickly as I began wondering what direction is this music going in? A composer like Delius seems to be criticized for meandering in many of his works, but when he meanders there still seems to be a purpose there and a reason why he's doing it. With Bax, it just seems like he's doing something just for the hell of it instead of it having meaning.

Okay, I'm trying to be kinder to Bax, but it's just becoming increasingly more difficult the more music I listen to.

You'll get it.

Moonfish

Quote from: Sean on February 16, 2015, 09:53:51 PM
Great recorded sound but like Handley he often misses the music's inner flow and gets confused by his training in sonata form and other structural pillars that he tries to relate the music to. I heard him speak once, a committed nice guy but Thomson's cycle is the benchmark despite occasional sluggishness.

Thanks Sean! It seems as if Thomson has quite the following? I must admit that Thomson's performance of the third symphony was excellent (in my ears).  It was quite a treat actually!  :)   However, I do not have any comparisons at this point in time.
"Every time you spend money you are casting a vote for the kind of world you want...."
Anna Lappé

Sean

Bax is England's Shostakovich, particularly of the Shostak Fourth symphony, which was written between Bax's Sixth and Seventh. No idea if they knew each other's work, Bax having lived in Russia in 1913, but if you perceive and understand how the important thing is for the material's own dynamic flow to lead the music, and the formal frame is just a trellis to work on, you'll begin to know Bax.

Sean

Hi there Moonfish, his Third is brooding and inward like no other performance.

I liked the connection you made with the Antarctica symphony.

Sean

Five back here there's still a few of my pictures from Bax's retreats in Ireland and Scotland that I visited...

Moonfish

Quote from: Sean on February 16, 2015, 10:04:52 PM
Hi there Moonfish, his Third is brooding and inward like no other performance.

I liked the connection you made with the Antarctica symphony.

I like brooding music...     :P

Dark, inward, beautiful, melancholic tonal potions, please! No wonder I liked the 3rd!  ::)
"Every time you spend money you are casting a vote for the kind of world you want...."
Anna Lappé

Sean

The First symphony is a similar remarkable work, particularly notable for is powerful slow movement.

And several Bax works resonate with the spirit of Holst's Saturn (1916).

vandermolen

My favourite recordings:

Symphony 1 Myer Fredman

Symphony 2 Myer Fredman

Symphony 3 Edward Downes

Symphony 4 Bryden Thomson

Symphony 5 Raymond Leppard

Symphony 6 Norman Del Mar

Symphony 7 Raymond Leppard

I am heavily biased to the Lyrita recordings, maybe because I got to know the symphonies through those old LPs.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Sean

#596
Thanks for that vandermolen, I don't know the Fredman performances yet... but I've found 1 and 2 on YT, hey.

Can you say which recordings are the Lyrita recordings?

Sean

Buy the way, compare the opening of Bax Third with that of Shostakovich Fourth, third movement. Coincidence? And in three movements?

vandermolen

#598
Quote from: Sean on February 17, 2015, 12:27:19 AM
Thanks for that vandermolen, I don't know the Fredman performances yet... but I've found 1 and 2 on YT, hey.

Can you say which recordings are the Lyrita recordings?

Hi Sean,

All except 3 (RCA LP) and 4 (Chandos CD) are on Lyrita. I like Vernon Handley's old Guildford Philharmonic version of Symphony 4 and Goossens's recording of Symphony 2 (Dutton). I agree that No. 4 is one of the best and is always considered the weakest of the cycle. Of the complete cycles, Bryden Thomson is my favourite. He was very underrated too. His Walton Symphony 1 is possibly my favourite recording and I have over 20 versions   ::).
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My favourite Lyrita Bax CD, although the coupling of 1 (Fredman) and 7 (Leppard) is brilliant too:
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"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Sean

#599
Hi there, presently listening to the Fredman Second, great energy and drive, he certainly believes in it and wants to communicate. I don't quite agree with the conception and would argue he emphasizes the bright details a little too much, while also looking for the kind of closure that isn't quite there, but this is certainly among the most satisfying versions. I feel the music is best served by an approach that lets it breathe and speak at its own pace and there's more RVW than Celtic mystery here, but it's a refreshingly no-nonsense, upfront advocation for music he clearly likes; Lloyd-Jones is a bit similar I guess.

Handley's Tristanesque Fourth is superb; as for Thomson's other work, I haven't found any I really like, but will seek out the Walton (edit- I have heard it a couple of years back, I remember the richness of orchestration brought out). I think something Nordic in Bax must have touched his Scottish soul.

Will look out for the Boult too, I didn't know.