Europe at War

[Mandryka]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUgKTfe-IqA&ab_channel=UnHerd

The truth about Neo-Nazis in Ukraine


(Appears to be balanced, worth hearing.)

[Mandryka]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mu19_rlwHgY

A Contrarian View on Ukraine/Russia, Samo Burja

(Lots of food for thought in this one.)

[BasilValentine]

So then what does "pay, heavily" for wearing suits mean?

Thousands in Russia have already been imprisoned for lower profile protests — use your imagination, if applicable.

[Herman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUgKTfe-IqA&ab_channel=UnHerd

The truth about Neo-Nazis in Ukraine


(Appears to be balanced, worth hearing.)

As so often, when something "appears to be balanced" it's really pretty right wing.

Just google unherd and its ramifications.

[Todd]

Fine, I'll play along.

Considering the current Russian intolerance of even suggestions of dissent, and an established disciplinary structure for cosmonauts who " misbehave ", they might see changes in career paths, salary forfeiture, a sudden inability to contact family in the ground... any number of actions could be taken, and there's no reason to assume the actions would be public.

So, you do not know. 

Thousands in Russia have already been imprisoned for lower profile protests — use your imagination, if applicable.

And you do not know, either. 

A lot of people do rely on their imaginations.  What they imagine may or may not happen.  Verifiable facts are superior to internet imaginings.   

News this morning:

Russia strikes Ukraine with cruise missiles from two seas
"March 20 (Reuters) - Russia struck Ukraine with cruise missiles from ships in the Black Sea and Caspian Sea,and launched hypersonic missiles from Crimean airspace, the Russian defence ministry said on Sunday.
Defence Ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov said Russia had carried out strikes against Ukraine's military infrastructure on Saturday night and Sunday morning. "Kalibr cruise missiles were launched from the waters of the Black Sea against the Nizhyn plant that repairs Ukrainian armoured vehicles damaged in fighting," he said.
Russia fired Kalibr cruise missiles from the Caspian Sea and hypersonic Kinzhal (Dagger) missiles from airspace of Crimea, the peninsula Russia annexed from Ukraine in 2014, to destroy a fuel storage facility used by the Ukrainian military, Konashenkov said. Russia also hit a Ukrainian military preparation centre where foreign fighters joining Kyiv's forces were based."


So, Putin has decided that if he can't have it, he'll destroy it... He seems to fire every missile in his arsenal indiscriminately at Ukranian cities. Fortunately nothing chemical, biological or nuclear.

This type of brutality is not uncommon in European wars.  Why should the world be surprised?

[Mandryka]

As so often, when something "appears to be balanced" it's really pretty right wing.

Just google unherd and its ramifications.

Yes I know what unherd is. And I repeat, this appears to be well balanced.

[Que]

This type of brutality is not uncommon in European wars.  Why should the world be surprised?

To our eternal disgrace, though I would decline calling the current aggresor an European nation. But we had the Balkan war with many atrocities before, so there's that indeed.

Were the wars that US has waged, supported or instigated any different?

[71 dB]

This type of brutality is not uncommon in European wars. 

Uncommon or not, this type of brutality we see in Ukraine should not happen anywhere. By now mankind should have learned from history, but it never learns so here we are. This is a planet of greedy assholes in power causing insane suffering to millions of innocent people. I have been naive, but I have finally realised what an ugly stupid planet this is. So undeveloped morally despite of (because of?) all technological achievements... 

[Todd]

To our eternal disgrace, though I would decline calling the current aggresor an European nation.

I disagree here; Russia has been in the mix of European culture and wars for centuries and has been the prize for fellow European nations a few times.  And if one would call the former Yugoslavia European, it would only follow that the largest Slavic state is also European.  It is far too convenient to claim Russia is not European. 

Were the wars that US has waged, supported or instigated any different?

Heavens no.  The US has murdered more innocent people than any other single nation state in the post-war era.*  It then blatantly lies about it.  All the time.  Every war.  Even when there is not a war.  The most perverse of those lies are the legalistic lies.  Take Raqqa.  The US and its allies destroyed it.  But Americans created grotesque legal fictions for support, so that American leaders may say that strict legal protocols were followed.  Then we can say look how bad other countries behave.  Like Russia.  Russia destroyed Aleppo illegally.  Therefore, Russia bad, America good. 

Then there are the now decades of drone strikes, carried out under purportedly rigorous legal protocols.  At one point, the process involved the sitting US President making final decisions on targets personally.  To hide civilians inconveniently killed during these strikes, the US created fictitious labels like "enemy combatants" that have been assiduously and readily adopted by every administration since the terms were established. 

Then there is the case of Libya, where the US President brazenly violated the War Powers Resolution and aided in the "allied" effort to literally destroy a country – which also resulted in its leader being murdered in the street.  At least the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq enjoyed Congressional blessing in the form of AUMFs.  The hundreds of thousands of dead civilians and their families probably don't really care much about American legal niceties. 

And there is of course Vietnam, and various clandestine efforts all over the world.  Every US administration in the post-war era has committed war crimes and violated international law; every US President after FDR could have or should stand trial under international law, if those laws were to be applied equally and effectively.  No US President will have to face such an indignity, though. 



* There is the troubling and difficult case of the Congo, starting in the 90s.  It is generally considered to be the greatest anthropogenic disaster of the post-war era, far worse than what will happen in Ukraine unless nuclear weapons are used, and likely even then, but it does not follow a state-on-state war model, nor does it follow a civil war model.  But since it is in Africa, nobody in The West actually cares.  Compare the unyielding press coverage all across The West today to coverage of the Congo crises.  Now, as some members of the press have embarrassingly but honestly stated in recent news coverage, Ukrainians are white, but that cannot possibly have anything to do with it, no way.  Right?

Uncommon or not, this type of brutality we see in Ukraine should not happen anywhere. By now mankind should have learned from history, but it never learns so here we are. This is a planet of greedy assholes in power causing insane suffering to millions of innocent people.

Pretty much all true.

[BasilValentine]

And you do not know, either. 

I've seen videos of people dragged out of Red Square for holding signs or even blank pieces of paper and put into vans. No doubt they were taking them out to lunch.

[Todd]

I've seen videos of people dragged out of Red Square for holding signs or even blank pieces of paper and put into vans. No doubt they were taking them out to lunch.

And that applies to the case of the cosmonauts how?

[Pohjolas Daughter]

I've seen videos of people dragged out of Red Square for holding signs or even blank pieces of paper and put into vans. No doubt they were taking them out to lunch.

I read a story about a young woman who was arrested just for taking a moment to read some of the signs.

And that applies to the case of the cosmonauts how?

I thought that it was great that the astronauts suits were blue and yellow. 

PD

[MusicTurner]

I read a story about a young woman who was arrested just for taking a moment to read some of the signs.
I thought that it was great that the astronauts suits were blue and yellow. 

PD

Also, one woman got punished for wearing a small hat, that was both blue and yellow, on a public square.

[The new erato]

Also, one woman got punished for wearing a small hat, that was both blue and yellow, on a public square.

A Swede?

[MusicTurner]

A Swede?

I guess she couldn't claim to be a Swede ... but then, under the current circumstances, Swedes & Westerners generally are dubious too, by definition ...

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Also, one woman got punished for wearing a small hat, that was both blue and yellow, on a public square.

Good God!

PD

[MusicTurner]

Source:
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/03/17/russian-woman-fined-for-wearing-blue-and-yellow-hat-a76980

"... the accused woman "displayed items of clothing and a badge painted in the colors of the flag of the Republic of Ukraine in a public place, expressing a clearly negative attitude towards the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation and attracting the attention of the media and bloggers."

[Mandryka]

Source:
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/03/17/russian-woman-fined-for-wearing-blue-and-yellow-hat-a76980

"... the accused woman "displayed items of clothing and a badge painted in the colors of the flag of the Republic of Ukraine in a public place, expressing a clearly negative attitude towards the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation and attracting the attention of the media and bloggers."

It may be true, it may be propaganda.

[MusicTurner]

The Moscow Times is considered a reliable newspaper. The article mentions an organization supplying legal help involved.

As regards the women with blank papers (or an inscription saying "Two Words") getting arrested, there's video evidence of those incidents.

[MusicTurner]

Another case:

"So what I did was I got two Harry Potter books. One is from Hufflepuff, which is yellow, and another one from Ravenclaw, which is blue. So the yellow and blue editions. And I was just reading those two books at Pushkin Square. So it looked like the Ukrainian flag. ... So for about an hour, the police did not know what to do with me because it was quite unusual. But then yeah, they decided to just take me to the police station ... It's not an arrest. It's a detainment. So they let me go the same evening, so I did not stay the night at the police station. So now I'm facing some fine, something like that. So I'm waiting for my hearing.."

Source, with picture: https://www.npr.org/2022/03/04/1084627201/one-russian-anti-war-protester-on-why-shes-risking-arrest-to-speak-out