Europe at War

[Florestan]

For example, how many American lives is Romania worth?  The correct answer is zero. 

I've very recently watched "Operation Finale". Ben Kingsley (as Adolf Eichmann) told Oscar Isaac (as Peter Malkin): I am one person against six million Jewish persons --- you do realize, don't you, that your sister is worth less than a spit of my mouth?

[Todd]

I've very recently watched "Operation Finale". Ben Kingsley (as Adolf Eichmann) told Oscar Isaac (as Peter Malkin): I am one person against six million Jewish persons --- you do realize, don't you, that your sister is worth less than a spit of my mouth?

So, is that a thumbs up for the movie?

[Florestan]

So, is that a thumbs up for the movie?

The movie was very good.

My idea is that you'd make an exemplary USA sort of Adolf Eichmann. No, really and honestly, you display the same sovereign contempt for anyone not belonging to the chosen race, ie not being a US citizen.

[Madiel]

There is something very bizarre about it from an American perspective, and the simultaneous proclamations of Russian weakness and the need for protection from Russia are intrinsically contradictory and bizarre.  I understand very well why small, weak countries desire US protection.  I understand what Russia can do to many countries located in the Eurasian landmass and in certain geographically proximate portions of Africa.  I also understand that if Russia completely destroys Ukraine and/or a variety of other countries, US security will not be impacted; five million dead Eurasians would or will have the same impact as five million dead Congolese.  That is, zilch.  Also, NATO's scope is expanding to the Pacific, as NATO has officially changed is designation of China.  Despite US assurances that it will not put together an Indo-Pacific version of NATO, it will put together something similar.  Those who believe they benefit from an expanding empire will of course sing the empire's praises.

Imagine if Todd had been in charge of the USA in either World War. All those American troops who ended up in Europe. SUCH a waste of effort, right?

On the other hand, he might just have avoided going to Vietnam.

[Todd]

My idea is that you'd make an exemplary USA sort of Adolf Eichmann. No, really and honestly, you display the same sovereign contempt for anyone not belonging to the chosen race, ie not being a US citizen.

On the internet, everything is always like WWII. 

[Johnnie Burgess]

Imagine if Todd had been in charge of the USA in either World War. All those American troops who ended up in Europe. SUCH a waste of effort, right?

On the other hand, he might just have avoided going to Vietnam.

When Japan attacked us is different than what is happening in the Ukraine.

[Madiel]

When Japan attacked us is different than what is happening in the Ukraine.

No shit, Sherlock. That covers one part of one of the wars I referred to. I don't recall a lot of Japanese troops in Europe when the Americans arrived there, I must have dozed off in that part of history class.

[drogulus]

     Allow me to hate the (heh!) mainstream media just a little, then I'll return to regularly scheduled programs.

     It appears that the media is tired of the narrative of Russian failure, more than Russia is tired of failing. The story needs a new twist. So Russia captured a couple of cities and have momentum.   

     Serious analysts look at the situation and estimate that Russia is running out of everything and has about a couple of months of ammo left. Remember, the Russian tank factory is closed for lack of parts. Russia is running on old stock, and I'm certain that's why Russian missiles are unreliable. There's not much new stuff left. Russian generals have to think about the consequences of having no modern weapons in the arsenal. Everyone will know! Everyone will see the Big Board!

     Russia will use T-62 tanks. Russia won't use SU-57 stealth fighters. If you can't use your best plane because you're afraid it would be shot down, but you can use obsolete museum piece tanks because you're running out of better slightly obsolete tanks, what's the war winning move?

[Gurn Blanston]

Just a general reminder for the many, that this thread, even whilst evoking some deep passions, must not coerce us into losing our fine grip upon civility.

And for those who are more of my ilk, I'll just say 'watch'er, amigo'.

I dislike getting asked by members who know better whether insults have become acceptable. It wasn't even on this thread, but since it's on my watch list I'll just spread the word. They haven't.   

[DavidW]

     Serious analysts look at the situation and estimate that Russia is running out of everything and has about a couple of months of ammo left. Remember, the Russian tank factory is closed for lack of parts. Russia is running on old stock, and I'm certain that's why Russian missiles are unreliable. There's not much new stuff left.

That is very good news.  All I've heard is bad.  They just have to hold on a bit longer.

[drogulus]

That is very good news.  All I've heard is bad.  They just have to hold on a bit longer.

     I'd like to believe that, but I can't quite. The Russians might just throw everything they have, whether it has value strategically or tactically or not, and dig in. Defense expends less goodies than offense. I think they won't be dislodged until next year.

     That gives Russia a better chance to work their magic among their many dear friends abroad, who will reliably spread the message that the horrors of war are the responsibility of the defenders. That's the best move they have.

     Zelensky may not be a NAZI yet, but who says he won't get there? If gas prices stay up long enough........

[Todd]

Putin needs a drawn-out war – the west's timidity gives him one

In military terms too, Russia may be able to outlast Ukrainian resilience and western patience. Authoritative assessments say Russia is running out of trained military manpower. But as with so much else, this is a less definitive challenge for Russia than it would be for other powers. Traditional Russian indifference to the scale of casualties incurred in pursuit of war aims is manifesting in its willingness to throw half-trained or untrained reserves and levies into the fight, including those drafted by force from occupied territories (yet another war crime to add to Russia's catalogue).

It is from the Graun, so adjust accordingly.

[Todd]

At NATO summit, Biden announces permanent U.S. troop presence in Poland, increased support for eastern Europe

[drogulus]

    It's hard to say who is most important to the defense (after Ukraine, that is). I would say the critical components are Poland and the US. The US has been unmatched in logistics since the '40s and no land power can match what it does. The Russians at this point could hardly defend St' Petersburg if anyone wanted to go to the trouble of grabbing it. They stripped their northern forces for the war in Ukraine. According to very smart Finland persons there is almost nothing on the Russian side except a few missile launchers with Lil" Kim nukes.

    And now are the Poles. This is their war. US timidity about the MiGs may not last. Instead of asking "please may I?" Poland will have Uke pilots fly them home and tell the US to send the F-16s now or even sooner. And we will do so.

[drogulus]

     Russians fire their cruise missiles at Uke cities because at least they do some damage, pointless as most of it is, and because Russian planes get shot down if they go too far from Russian territory and their SAM sites.

     The US is sending Ukraine the same anti-missile system that defends Washington, D.C.

     A thinkster says:

With AMRAMM ER (AMRAAM seeker head and warhead + RIM 162 booster), this range will extend out to 50km. This is what the Ukraine needs for anti cruise missile defence. In addition, NASAMS can be used with the FDC (Fire Distribution Centre) which can interlink with up to 8 radars and a dozen missile launchers.

     This is well beyond the Soviet era stuff Ukraine has now. Cap and his merry band are running sims to see how well they perform. I'll go watch.

[Todd]

NATO deems Russia its 'most significant and direct threat'

When I first read this headline, I thought The Onion had made it into my news feed.  Nope, it's from the AP.  And here I thought NATO was established, maintained, and recklessly expanded to ward off threats from Freedonia. 

[drogulus]

    According to real oligarch housewives Putin is sick and insane and evil. One of them is Countess Tolstoy, ex-housewife of Putin banker Sergei Pugachev, now in exile for....something.

   

     This is an old picture from happier days. If I'm not mistaken this is the real visage of Putin. How did such a hollow cheeked despot end up with a balloon face? My face got hollower when I got old the way nature intended.

[Johnnie Burgess]

No shit, Sherlock. That covers one part of one of the wars I referred to. I don't recall a lot of Japanese troops in Europe when the Americans arrived there, I must have dozed off in that part of history class.

And Germany declared war on the US first in WW2.

[Madiel]

And Germany declared war on the US first in WW2.

Right, so here's the question: instead of bringing up the Japanese to say how different THAT was, focus on the Germans and explain how US involvement IN EUROPE in World War Two is so different to current European involvement.

Because that is what I was actually talking about before you brought up an irrelevant situation on the opposite side of the world.

[Johnnie Burgess]

Right, so here's the question: instead of bringing up the Japanese to say how different THAT was, focus on the Germans and explain how US involvement IN EUROPE in World War Two is so different to current European involvement.

Because that is what I was actually talking about before you brought up an irrelevant situation on the opposite side of the world.

At this time we have not been attacked and Russia has not declared was on the US.  So why should we get involved?