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Europe at War

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Madiel:

--- Quote from: LKB on August 11, 2022, 11:44:01 AM ---This is wholly Putin's war, and the Russians are paying for it with their sons/ fathers/ brothers etc. They can be imprisoned for objecting, criticizing the Russian military or questioning Putin himself.

--- End quote ---

One of the issues being his refusal to actually call it a "war". There's a media report here today that Russia is struggling for troops a bit, but also that one of the reasons that's happening is Putin resisting having a full mobilisation of his forces, because it would be unpopular within Russia. You can't keep pretending you're just having an "operation" once the whole army is involved.

LKB:
And with the attack on that airbase in the Crimea, those vacationing Russians who fled will have a story to tell, one which probably won't be compatible with Putin's fiction.

Then again, those folks might be welcomed home by the FSB, who will thoughtfully provide an approved account to be used in explaining their truncated trips to interested parties.  ::)

MusicTurner:

--- Quote from: Madiel on August 12, 2022, 04:24:39 AM ---One of the issues being his refusal to actually call it a "war". There's a media report here today that Russia is struggling for troops a bit, but also that one of the reasons that's happening is Putin resisting having a full mobilisation of his forces, because it would be unpopular within Russia. You can't keep pretending you're just having an "operation" once the whole army is involved.

--- End quote ---

'A bit of a problem' including offering convicts, also murderers, the possibility to be released and get money for participating in the war (apparently 1500 so far); and mercenary groups like Wagner being finally recognised as military groups that also participate officially, besides just doing the other dirty or covert jobs they've specialized in before.

Overall, the Russian losses and soldiers have very much been from the outer, poorer provinces - another means of trying to keep the middle or well-off classes somewhat less troubled by the war.

Madiel:
Yes, the offer to convicts was part of the story I was reading.

Que:

--- Quote from: MusicTurner on August 11, 2022, 11:09:58 AM ---That's one of the problems with say implementing a complete visa ban for Russians from the EU, which is now being discussed; how would politically active people or asylum seekers still have a reasonable range of options to get away ... besides the principal question of the individual's alleged share of the collective guilt, in the actions of a dictatorship, that would partly be implied in such a ban.

--- End quote ---

I'm not sure is this an issue of collective guilt, in myopinion more a question of collective awareness.

I totally get the unease with the Russian elite - because ordinary Russians don't go to Western countries for vacationing or shopping - pretending that it is business as usual. Isn't disculpating shoulder shrugging a little bit too easy?

Those looking for asylum can go to any Western embassy.

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