Europe at War

[MusicTurner]

And, goodness knows, the Chechens hold a grudge.

There's a Chechen unit in the Ukrainian army too.

Some media reporting here in DK about incidents of Ukrainian soldiers killing POWs. This happens on both sides, and the stories are supported by a Danish elite sniper, who didn't participate in them, but says that he expects to reach more than 100 killed Russians this week. Today, Peskov also admitted that Russian total losses had been 'significant'; some say perhaps 45,000 men.

[BasilValentine]

There's a Chechen unit in the Ukrainian army too.

Some media reporting here in DK about incidents of Ukrainian soldiers killing POWs. This happens on both sides, and the stories are supported by a Danish elite sniper, who didn't participate in them, but says that he expects to reach more than 100 killed Russians this week. Today, Peskov also admitted that Russian total losses had been 'significant'; some say perhaps 45,000 men.

Well, if they weren't happening before one can be sure they will now as retaliation. I assume by losses you mean casualties, that is, the sum of deaths plus injuries sufficient to take a soldier out of action?

[drogulus]

     I've seen the 45,000 figure and it seems reasonable as a count of losses from all causes.

     The coming battle is supposed to favor the Russians, and it would if the Russians were anything like their prewar reputation would indicate. They aren't, but I'm thinking they aren't as bad as their performance might suggest either. It looks to me like the Ukes are very good. Not only are they using their excellent training to the fullest, they are also on the cutting edge of a new kind of warfare. They are the dronemasters.

     The Russians have a plan they might not have enough forces to implement. All the elements must work to make the pocket and close it, while the Ukes are completely aware of the danger and might launch strikes against the encirclers before they get where they need to be.

[JBS]

There's a Chechen unit in the Ukrainian army too.

Some media reporting here in DK about incidents of Ukrainian soldiers killing POWs. This happens on both sides, and the stories are supported by a Danish elite sniper, who didn't participate in them, but says that he expects to reach more than 100 killed Russians this week. Today, Peskov also admitted that Russian total losses had been 'significant'; some say perhaps 45,000 men.

There is at least one video of such an incident going the rounds, apparently vetted by the NY Times before they released it. The unit involved is claimed to be composed of Georgians fighting as volunteers for Ukraine.

[MusicTurner]

Well, if they weren't happening before one can be sure they will now as retaliation. I assume by losses you mean casualties, that is, the sum of deaths plus injuries sufficient to take a soldier out of action?

Yes.
Why their tank turrets are often blown off: there's a circle of grenades under them; not good from a safety perspective. The crews just disappear.
https://twitter.com/Peter__Leonard/status/1512164631749578771

A former Putin advisor until 2011, Pavlovsky, hopes for the 9th of May to be the date of a halt to the war, but he is also pessimistic.
https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-ukraine-invasion-putin-trap-pavlovsky/31787269.html

Zhirinovsky In Memoriam (the story goes, because he choose to take eight covid vaccines):
https://twitter.com/MarkGaleotti/status/1511730620568846343

[Todd]

Ukraine Army Is Using 'Terminator Drones' to 'Scare Russians' Into Retreat

What the world needs now is more cheap war propaganda that then gets picked up and trumpeted by the mainstream press.

[BasilValentine]

Ukraine Army Is Using 'Terminator Drones' to 'Scare Russians' Into Retreat

What the world needs now is more cheap war propaganda that then gets picked up and trumpeted by the mainstream press.

Yes, I agree! Especially when it shows a spent delivery system for cluster bombs intentionally deployed against civilian targets.

[T. D.]

From https://www.economist.com/1843/2022/04/07/a-month-in-kyiv-soldiers-funerals-and-looters-tied-to-lampposts [Possible paywall]



The blitz, with smartphones A man accused of looting is tied up by the armed forces, awaiting arrest by the police (opening image).



Ukrainians have no patience with looters.

Near the bridge the group of journalists I was with came across three men tied to a post with clingfilm. Their trousers had been pulled down around their ankles and their mouths stuffed with potatoes. It was bizarre, although the locals didn't seem shocked. They told us that these men were Ukrainians who had been stealing from refugees and looting empty houses.

[Mandryka]

There were similar pictures of gypsies tied to lampposts with green dye on their faces, because they had been accused of pickpocketing. And in peace time homosexuals had their face coloured with green dye too.

Those potatoes are dehumanising, which makes inhumane treatment more acceptable. I can't remember seeing anything like it, except in medieval woodcuts.

[Madiel]

There were similar pictures of gypsies tied to lampposts with green dye on their faces, because they had been accused of pickpocketing. And in peace time homosexuals had their face coloured with green dye too.

Sources?

EDIT: Never mind, found some information. A regular feature of public life in Ukraine and Russia it seems. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zelyonka_attack

Though I can't find any stories about it happening to homosexuals, and the sources I can find for the gypsy story are... interesting. They appear to all stem from "RT".. which is "Russia Today". A state-funded media network. Guess which state funds it.

SECOND EDIT: I can now find a report of LGBT folk being attacked with the Zelyonka dye. In Russia.

[Mandryka]

Sources?

EDIT: Never mind, found some information. A regular feature of public life in Ukraine and Russia it seems. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zelyonka_attack

Though I can't find any stories about it happening to homosexuals, and the sources I can find for the gypsy story are... interesting. They appear to all stem from "RT".. which is "Russia Today". A state-funded media network. Guess which state funds it.

SECOND EDIT: I can now find a report of LGBT folk being attacked with the Zelyonka dye. In Russia.

Yes, you found this presumably

https://mobile.twitter.com/BcatMonitoring/status/1172211216451809283

[Florestan]

If, as polls show, Marine Le Pen does have a chance to win France's Presidency, then Putin would have a second Trojan horse in the EU, and for that matter a far more important and influential one than Hungary's Orban. Add to this that the Podemitas fraction of the Spanish government is overtly or covertly pro-Putin and anti-NATO and it becomes clear that Macron's victory is essential for preserving EU and NATO unity of thought and action, although I'm far from being a fan of his.

[Florestan]

While I don't endorse bad treatment of people no matter what they have done I can't help thinking that those guys dehumanized themselves to begin with, by looting from refugees' houses.

[Mandryka]

While I don't endorse bad treatment of people no matter what they have done I can't help thinking that those guys dehumanized themselves to begin with, by looting from refugees' houses.

I know societies do that sort of thing in war - think of what the French did in the épuration -  but it is still uncivilised.

[Florestan]

I know societies do that sort of thing in war - think of what the French did in the épuration -  but it is still uncivilised.

It is, although less uncivlised than bombing a railway station full of refugees.

[Mandryka]

It is, although less uncivlised than bombing a railway station full of refugees.

Of course. Two wrongs don't make a right. Let's not forget that those people bound and gagged have not been tried.

[Florestan]

Of course. Two wrongs don't make a right. Let's not forget that those people bound and gagged have not been tried.

Why, yes, agreed, justice should be done properly --- but the Ukrainians (some of them, actually) might perhaps be excused for behaving the way they do: you know, they are under a little stress right now.

[Que]

Of course. Two wrongs don't make a right. Let's not forget that those people bound and gagged have not been tried.

It doesn't seem unlawful to apprehend people that are caught in the act, and tie them up. Of course the way it is done is unnecessarily demeaning. But in a disorderly situation of armed conflict in which certain men start looting and raping, they are lucky not to have been shot on the spot.

[Florestan]

It doesn't seem unlawful to apprehend people that are caught in the act, and tie them up. Of course the way it is done is unnecessarily demeaning. But in a disorderly situation of armed conflict in which certain men start looting and raping, they are lucky not to have been shot on the spot.

This as well.

[Todd]

While I don't endorse bad treatment of people no matter what they have done I can't help thinking that those guys dehumanized themselves to begin with, by looting from refugees' houses.

It doesn't seem unlawful to apprehend people that are caught in the act, and tie them up. Of course the way it is done is unnecessarily demeaning. But in a disorderly situation of armed conflict in which certain men start looting and raping, they are lucky not to have been shot on the spot.

All manner of behavior can be rationalized and explained away.  War offers the broadest, most reliable context for this.  Maybe Hobbes was on to something, after all.