Europe at War

[drogulus]

     Kazakhstan is sending oil to Europe. They are also increasing their defense budget in case they are discovered to be historically Russian. They would prefer to be historically Kazakh.

     

[LKB]

Yet one more example of Putin's pattern of lies, as recounted by the BBC:

" 'I will break my arm, my leg... anything to avoid the draft'
By Olesya Gerasimenko & Liza Fokht, BBC News

Sergei - not his real name - has already been called up.

The 26-year-old PhD student and lecturer was expecting a delivery of groceries the night before the Putin address, when two men arrived in civilian clothes handing him military papers to sign.

The Kremlin said only people who had done their military service and had special skills and combat experience would be called up.

But Sergei has no military experience and his stepfather is worried, as dodging the draft is a criminal offence in Russia.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62992365

[MusicTurner]

"Meanwhile, it only took a few hours for another group of mobilised Russians to get dead drunk. "What are we going for? Where are we going? F*ck knows!", one concludes."

https://twitter.com/APHClarkson/status/1572980605981163520

EDIT: there's already much more of such video material on the web, incl. https://twitter.com/OlgaNYC1211/status/1573240127731687430

Example of attitude among enlisted/relatives at meetings https://twitter.com/Reevellp/status/1573272879655010306 , https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1573210351721713664

[71 dB]

A lot of Russians are coming to Finland to escape being drafted. Finland wants to stop Russians to come, but EU doesn't allow us to do so. Other eastern European countries have nullified Russian Visas and are angry Finland doesn't do the same (break EU rules). Everything is lunacy these days. 

[LKB]

A lot of Russians are coming to Finland to escape being drafted. Finland wants to stop Russians to come, but EU doesn't allow us to do so. Other eastern European countries have nullified Russian Visas and are angry Finland doesn't do the same (break EU rules). Everything is lunacy these days. 

There could be an upside here.

At least some ( if not most ) of these Russians will not be lovers of Putin, and in a more democratic social environment, with freer access to western media, may feel strongly motivated to contribute whatever skills they possess.

So Finland could benefit in various unforeseen ways, though time will tell.

[Madiel]

A lot of Russians are coming to Finland to escape being drafted. Finland wants to stop Russians to come, but EU doesn't allow us to do so. Other eastern European countries have nullified Russian Visas and are angry Finland doesn't do the same (break EU rules). Everything is lunacy these days. 

EU rules don't allow it? I thought some of the Baltics were already doing something, or am I misremembering.

[Herman]

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/23/us/politics/putin-ukraine.html

According to this report Putin is going the Hitler route: overruling the generals and implementing counter-effective strategies because of ego problems.

He's going to need a very long desk soon.

[71 dB]

There could be an upside here.

At least some ( if not most ) of these Russians will not be lovers of Putin, and in a more democratic social environment, with freer access to western media, may feel strongly motivated to contribute whatever skills they possess.

So Finland could benefit in various unforeseen ways, though time will tell.

Only some of the Russians are planning to stay in Finland. Many of them are heading to other countries. Finland is just the point of entry into the EU area. There can be both benefits and downsides of this.

EU rules don't allow it? I thought some of the Baltics were already doing something, or am I misremembering.

Yes, they (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland) are by breaking EU rules. Finland tends to do things "by the book", but now they say next week Finland will stop Russians no matter what EU says, because the situation requires it and Finland can't wait forever for EU's blessing.

The sitution changes all the time, so who knows what happens...

Charles Michel says EU should allow Russian escaping Putin's tyrany to come to EU.

[Que]

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/23/us/politics/putin-ukraine.html

According to this report Putin is going the Hitler route: overruling the generals and implementing counter-effective strategies because of ego problems.

He's going to need a very long desk soon.

Just like Hitler he runs the risk of entire brigades being surrounded and subsequently captured.

[ritter]

...
Charles Michel says EU should allow Russian escaping Putin's tyrany to come to EU.

"Should" being the key word. "Should" and not "must". EU countries are sovereign to deny admission to persons entering from outside the Union. Once inside, there's freedom of movement within the Schengen area (and even that can be restricted unilaterally).

[Pohjolas Daughter]

"Meanwhile, it only took a few hours for another group of mobilised Russians to get dead drunk. "What are we going for? Where are we going? F*ck knows!", one concludes."

https://twitter.com/APHClarkson/status/1572980605981163520

EDIT: there's already much more of such video material on the web, incl. https://twitter.com/OlgaNYC1211/status/1573240127731687430

Example of attitude among enlisted/relatives at meetings https://twitter.com/Reevellp/status/1573272879655010306 , https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1573210351721713664

It sounds like absolute chaos...people being drafted who "supposedly" have previous military experience--and do not.  And it sounds like that there are a lot of the newbies (not to mention some with actual military experience who are already there in Ukraine) asking "Why are we here?!".

And, I should have prefaced this with, thank you for those links.

PD

[Florestan]

EU countries are sovereign to deny admission to persons entering from outside the Union.

Exactly. If Finland denied admission to Russian citizens it wouldn't break any EU rule.

Actually, very recently there was talk at high EU levels about officially denying admission into EU to all Russian citizens, a move which was strongly opposed by Hungary and which I deem absurd.

[71 dB]

EU countries are sovereign to deny admission to persons entering from outside the Union. Once inside, there's freedom of movement within the Schengen area (and even that can be restricted unilaterally).

The issue seems to be VERY problematic politically in my country... 

[ritter]

The issue seems to be VERY problematic politically in my country... 

I can imagine, with Finland being one of the main "escape routes" for Russians. We in Spain are at the other end of the continent, so we really cannot get a good grasp of what it might be like over there...

[Pohjolas Daughter]

I can imagine, with Finland being one of the main "escape routes" for Russians. We in Spain are at the other end of the continent, so we really cannot get a good grasp what what it might be like over there...

Good points.

PD

[71 dB]

I can imagine, with Finland being one of the main "escape routes" for Russians. We in Spain are at the other end of the continent, so we really cannot get a good grasp of what it might be like over there...

Well, the it is the same for people coming from Morocco to Spain...

[Florestan]

Only some of the Russians are planning to stay in Finland. Many of them are heading to other countries. Finland is just the point of entry into the EU area. There can be both benefits and downsides of this.

I am pretty sure that among those Russians are not a few covert FSB agents who under the guise of fleeing the mobilization will spread in the EU with the official mission of sabotaging it. 

[Florestan]

The Lithuanian Minister of Foreign Affairs made a good point: there is no reason why, in the name of humanitarianism, we should admit in our country Russian citizens who protest and flee the war in Ukraine only when it affects them directly.

[ritter]

Well, the it is the same for people coming from Morocco to Spain...

Not quite. That is a "structural" phenomenon, not something that is "suddenly" happening.

[71 dB]

Not quite. That is a "structural" phenomenon, not something that is "suddenly" happening.

Sorry, I don't know about suddenly happening things in Spain...