Beethoven's Symphonies: Are they All Masterpieces?

[Brian]

Merge this with "Unpopular Opinions" 

[JBS]

I could nominate that as the most absurd thing I have ever read on GMG! 

My statement boils down to saying the Fifth is at most Beethoven's fifth or sixth best symphony.

First tier
3 4 7 8
Middle tier
5 6 9
Bottom tier
1 2

Put that way, does it still sound absurd?

[Karl Henning]

I'm not particularly fond of nos. 2 and 4,
though they may still be "masterpieces". All the others, yes!

The Op. 60 is brilliant!

[Karl Henning]

My statement boils down to saying the Fifth is at most Beethoven's fifth or sixth best symphony.

First tier
3 4 7 8
Middle tier
5 6 9
Bottom tier
1 2

Put that way, does it still sound absurd?

I have no quarrel with you.

[Spotted Horses]

My statement boils down to saying the Fifth is at most Beethoven's fifth or sixth best symphony.

First tier
3 4 7 8
Middle tier
5 6 9
Bottom tier
1 2

Put that way, does it still sound absurd?

The only Beethoven symphony that I might be tempted to characterize as prosaic is the first, when he was still to some extent channeling Haydn. What is unique about Beethoven is that he wrote a small number of symphonies (not 41 odd, not 1o4 odd) but each one is a world unto itself. For Mozart or Haydn I suspect someone could swap slow movements between two symphonies, and as long as it were transcribed so as not to be out of place within the key scheme, I might not notice. Could you put the slow movement of the 7th into the 5th, the 6th, the 8th, the 9th, be persuaded that it fits in? I think not.

I have my favorites, but I think that every Beethoven symphony after the first opened new territory for the symphony and is a true "masterpiece," to the extent that I know what that term means.

[foxandpeng]

I feel something of a fraud responding to this thread, because I have musical competence whatsoever, and because Beethoven rarely appears in my listening. Having said that, like many utter novices who have no idea where to start when they first come to classical music, Beethoven's symphonies were one of my entry points. I pretty much thought there was Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, a few others like Haydn and Handel, and that was your lot. As a result, I played these symphonies to death.

For me, they are all outstanding, and I still love them. Like everyone, I have favourites, and some I return to less frequently but from the perspective of an amateur listener, I find them all 'masterpiecey'.

6, 5, 7, 2, 3, 9, 4, 8, 1 on the Fox Scale.

Apologies in advance to the Beethovenists (Beethovanians? Beethoveners?)

[LKB]

Masterpiece + : 3
Masterpieces: 5, 9
Solid: 2, 4, 6-8
High - quality student work: 1

[Leo K.]

For me, the Beethoven 9 is the first instance of the "finale problem" in symphonic literature that haunts the symphony to this day. The 9th is where this trend started (IMO). A flawed masterpiece for me, but awesome all the same.

[André]

For me, the Beethoven 9 is the first instance of the "finale problem" in symphonic literature that haunts the symphony to this day. The 9th is where this trend started (IMO). A flawed masterpiece for me, but awesome all the same.

My feeling, too.

The same can be said of the 5th, an uneven symphonic patchwork.

I have a much higher opinion of no 1 than most here. I consider it one of LvB's most successful symphonies. 

Masterpieces: 3 and 7
Flawed masterpieces: 5 and 9
Excellent, solid symphonies: 1, 4. Superb when sympathetically interpreted (not very often): no 6
Good when sympathetically interpreted: 2 and 8.

The same 'exercise' could be made toward other composers' symphonies... 

[Jo498]

My statement boils down to saying the Fifth is at most Beethoven's fifth or sixth best symphony.

First tier
3 4 7 8
Middle tier
5 6 9
Bottom tier
1 2

Put that way, does it still sound absurd?

Yes, to put the 3 historically most influential and today still most popular ones all in the middle tier is at least  a little bizarre.

[Jo498]

The same can be said of the 5th, an uneven symphonic patchwork.

What's "patchy" about it? There is probably no more tightly constructed symphony in the standard repertoire, if anything it's fault is it monomanic unidimensionality.

[Valentino]

Must listen more to 1, 2 and 4.
Love 8, 3 is still a revolution, and 9 is 9.

Yes is the answer.

[joachim]

Yes, for me they are all masterpieces!

The ones I like the least are numbers 2 and 4.

My favorites, 9, 6 and 3

Number 9 is my favorite piece of music in the world, since I was a teenager (and I'm 75 I haven't changed  )

Have you had the opportunity to listen to the 10th, in the orchestration of the sketches performed by Barry Cooper? There is only the first movement, the only one it seems that it was possible to arrange

[DavidW]

It was funny that I was just thinking about these symphonies... as in some of the finest out there, but collectively nothing compared to his piano sonatas and string quartets imho.