Author Topic: Erich Wolfgang Korngold  (Read 62267 times)

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Offline SurprisedByBeauty

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Re: Erich Wolfgang Korngold
« Reply #180 on: December 03, 2019, 04:39:29 AM »
Note the qualifier: "if he intends to keep this up".  ;)
I, as well, think that he has extraordinary qualities, which were present during the evening in intermittent fashion, but also in copious amounts whenever he chose to reveal them (for instance, his way with the orchestral interludes was breathtaking). This made the soulless mess he tried to turn Korngold's score into during other parts of the evening even more aggravating. It seems to me that in opera he's entering a dangerous phase in which all those lauds of him being a "singer's conductor" result in him turning more and more into grotesque mannerisms regarding orchestral balance in order to "facilitate" singers and justify the credential. I hope he has more sense than making it a habit resorting to this kind of tasteless hyperbole and that it's simply Korngold he was unable to connect with. However, given the tendencies, it might be a good idea for him to stick to orchestral music for a while. I expect great things in Berlin, unless he has any similar misguided ideas for them, too.

I've found him to be a specifically great opera conductor (Jenufa, Frau Ohne Schatten, Lady Macbeth, Rheingold) and I also find that a great opera conductor is rarer than a great orchestral conductor! [I'm thinking of K.Petrenko & C.Thielemann, mostly.] (Whereas a fine opera conductor is probably more easy to have than a fine orchestral conductor... P.Jordan, F.Luisi, C.Meister, who are all better in the pit than on the podium.) To get a repertoire opera orchestra to perform as the Staatsorchester has performed in those years under Petrenko is simply more of an achievement than to get the Berlin Philharmonic to perform great. So I think we're in for a gain in Berlin but a net-loss. Also, he's so introverted, I genuinely and seriously doubt Petrenko does anything in order to live up to some perceived notion of him as a conductor known for this or that.

Offline Wanderer

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Re: Erich Wolfgang Korngold
« Reply #181 on: December 03, 2019, 05:43:28 AM »
I've found him to be a specifically great opera conductor (Jenufa, Frau Ohne Schatten, Lady Macbeth, Rheingold)

Based on my experience, I think he’s a very good (with glimpses of greatness) rather than a superlative opera conductor. There is greatness/genius in there, but not in a consistent manner. I'm glad your experiences have all been positive (I’d have liked to have been there for Jenůfa and indeed for any of those - with the possible exception of R. Strauss, after what I've heard him doing to Korngold).

To get a repertoire opera orchestra to perform as the Staatsorchester has performed in those years under Petrenko...

I do agree and appreciate the fact that he managed to elevate the Bavarian orchestra to a different level and to admirable degrees of refinement, but that rather adds to the disappointment if it ultimately results in botched interpretations.

[I'm thinking of K.Petrenko & C.Thielemann, mostly.]

Speaking of Thielemann, I caught parts of his Frau ohne Schatten in Vienna last time I was there in June, at the screen outside; we went for dinner and came back for the finale. Such a fine evening. I agree he’s better in opera than in orchestral music, but, because of the tendencies I mentioned, I think the opposite of Petrenko.

To get a repertoire opera orchestra to perform as the Staatsorchester has performed...

Speaking of repertoire opera houses, it did cross my mind that the night’s  - I don’t want to say fiasco because it wasn’t all bad, let’s say gross tonal inconsistencies – might have been aggravated by the fact that they were performing Wozzeck the previous night and God knows what else between the performance I saw (the second one) and the premiere, almost half a month ago.

Also, he's so introverted, I genuinely and seriously doubt Petrenko does anything in order to live up to some perceived notion of him as a conductor known for this or that.

You’d be surprised how insidiously these things can be internalized by any disposition.

Offline SurprisedByBeauty

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Re: Erich Wolfgang Korngold
« Reply #182 on: December 03, 2019, 06:05:05 AM »

Speaking of Thielemann, I caught parts of his Frau ohne Schatten in Vienna last time I was there in June, at the screen outside; we went for dinner and came back for the finale. Such a fine evening. I agree he’s better in opera than in orchestral music, but, because of the tendencies I mentioned, I think the opposite of Petrenko.

I missed the CT FrOSch this time, but I saw it in Salzburg... and then a year later in Munich with KP. The two performances (I believe I wrote about both) could not have been any different. But both were superlative. Although I'm a sucker for the lusher approach of CT's than the diaphanous ways of KP in that particular Strauss opera. (Then again, I've also heard Kent Nagano conduct an absolutely splendid Schweigsame Frau -- so you never know. And with the latter you could never know whether he was inspired or whether the musicians were winging it, because he'd lost them totally.)

Quote
Speaking of repertoire opera houses, it did cross my mind that the night’s  - I don’t want to say fiasco because it wasn’t all bad, let’s say gross tonal inconsistencies – might have been aggravated by the fact that they were performing Wozzeck the previous night and God knows what else between the performance I saw (the second one) and the premiere, almost half a month ago.

You should hear the dreck that the Vienna State Opera Orchestra puts out, except on the rarest of occasions. Come to think of it, you probably do. Compared to that, the Bavarian StOp is an isle of bliss.

Offline Wanderer

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Re: Erich Wolfgang Korngold
« Reply #183 on: December 03, 2019, 06:28:30 AM »
You should hear the dreck that the Vienna State Opera Orchestra puts out, except on the rarest of occasions. Come to think of it, you probably do. Compared to that, the Bavarian StOp is an isle of bliss.

They seem to be under the same predicament - I do remember, for instance, it took them several minutes to settle to Janáček's idiom at the beginning of Jenůfa (but what a splendour the rest of that evening was). So far I've been lucky with them.

Offline AlberichUndHagen

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Re: Erich Wolfgang Korngold
« Reply #184 on: December 03, 2019, 07:06:39 AM »
I saw Die Tote Stadt in Finnish National Opera last October (if I remember correctly)! I enjoyed it greatly, The singer of Marietta was absolutely phenomenal, I have almost never heard as inspired female singing as that night. She also received also most of the applause, deservedly.

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Erich Wolfgang Korngold
« Reply #185 on: December 14, 2019, 05:19:50 AM »
Been enjoying this for the first time today. An excellent version although I take Roasted Swan's points above. It was, however, interesting to hear the slow movement taken faster than usual. Overall a fine version and super recording:
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Erich Wolfgang Korngold
« Reply #186 on: June 30, 2020, 05:13:41 AM »
Even faster than W-M....intriguing indeed.

Korngold Symphony F sharp major
                                     I         II         III         IV        Total
Welser-Möst            12:50    9:48    14:45    10:11    47:34
Kempe                     14:12    9:14    15:04    10:23    48:53
Albrecht                   14:50    9:56    15:20    10:25    50.31 
Downes                   14:14   10:14   16:28    10:24    51:20
Previn                      15:55   10:32   16:09    10:31    53:07
Storgards                15:55   11:03   15:36    11:11    53:48


Sarge

I’ll add another one:

                                I         II         III         IV        Total
Albert                   16:20    10:05   15:09   10:49     52:23
“There will be sunshine again and the violins will sing of peace on earth.” - Closing line from Weinberg’s Symphony No. 6, Op. 79

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Erich Wolfgang Korngold
« Reply #187 on: June 30, 2020, 05:17:09 AM »
Been enjoying this for the first time today. An excellent version although I take Roasted Swan's points above. It was, however, interesting to hear the slow movement taken faster than usual. Overall a fine version and super recording:


Excellent to read, Jeffrey. I bought this recording not too long ago. Who else do you enjoy in the Symphony in F-sharp? Besides Wilson, I've got Albert, Previn, Welser-Möst and Downes.
“There will be sunshine again and the violins will sing of peace on earth.” - Closing line from Weinberg’s Symphony No. 6, Op. 79

Offline BWV 1080

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Re: Erich Wolfgang Korngold
« Reply #188 on: June 30, 2020, 05:48:07 AM »
Really like the Star Wars theme he wrote

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/sf47W9rXzRM" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/sf47W9rXzRM</a>

Offline Roasted Swan

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Re: Erich Wolfgang Korngold
« Reply #189 on: June 30, 2020, 06:12:03 AM »
Really like the Star Wars theme he wrote

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/sf47W9rXzRM" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/sf47W9rXzRM</a>

This theme encapsulates everything about Korngold - the harmony/the melodic shape/the orchestration - its an absolute cracker.  Never seen the film except for the excerpt where Ronald Regan wakes up to find he has no legs.......

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Erich Wolfgang Korngold
« Reply #190 on: June 30, 2020, 06:19:44 AM »
Excellent to read, Jeffrey. I bought this recording not too long ago. Who else do you enjoy in the Symphony in F-sharp? Besides Wilson, I've got Albert, Previn, Welser-Möst and Downes.
I also especially like Previn and that pioneering Kempe version John.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Erich Wolfgang Korngold
« Reply #191 on: June 30, 2020, 06:21:03 AM »
I also especially like Previn and that pioneering Kempe version John.

Cool. I’ll have to rip the Previn to my iPod then. I already have Albert’s (CPO) on it and I find it to be a very good (underrated?) performance.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 06:23:05 AM by Mirror Image »
“There will be sunshine again and the violins will sing of peace on earth.” - Closing line from Weinberg’s Symphony No. 6, Op. 79

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Erich Wolfgang Korngold
« Reply #192 on: June 30, 2020, 06:22:43 AM »
Cool. I’ll have to rip the Previn to my iPod then. I already have Albert’s (CPO) on and find it a very good (underrated?) performance.
The Previn is great. I think that Sarge think so as well. I also like the Storgårds version more than most people.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Erich Wolfgang Korngold
« Reply #193 on: June 30, 2020, 06:23:45 AM »
The Previn is great. I think that Sarge think so as well. I also like the Storgårds version more than most people.

I definitely won’t be getting the Storgårds. I find him to be a pretty boring conductor in general.
“There will be sunshine again and the violins will sing of peace on earth.” - Closing line from Weinberg’s Symphony No. 6, Op. 79

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Erich Wolfgang Korngold
« Reply #194 on: June 30, 2020, 06:26:43 AM »
I definitely won’t be getting the Storgårds. I find him to be a pretty boring conductor in general.
Fair enough John. I'm sure that you'll be happy with Previn which is my overall favourite recording. I also really liked the Edward Downes version when it first came out but play it les frequently now.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Erich Wolfgang Korngold
« Reply #195 on: June 30, 2020, 06:29:04 AM »
Fair enough John. I'm sure that you'll be happy with Previn which is my overall favourite recording. I also really liked the Edward Downes version when it first came out but play it les frequently now.

Yeah, I’ve got several performances of this symphony to chose from. 8)
“There will be sunshine again and the violins will sing of peace on earth.” - Closing line from Weinberg’s Symphony No. 6, Op. 79

Offline Symphonic Addict

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Re: Erich Wolfgang Korngold
« Reply #196 on: June 30, 2020, 04:07:17 PM »
The latest Chandos release of the Symphony is a must hear IMO. It's taken faster than other performances and its effect is overwhelming, it works quite convincing that way.

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Erich Wolfgang Korngold
« Reply #197 on: June 30, 2020, 04:09:40 PM »
The latest Chandos release of the Symphony is a must hear IMO. It's taken faster than other performances and its effect is overwhelming, it works quite convincing that way.

Yes, I listened to little of the first movement via NML and I was rather impressed with it. As a result, I bought that symphony recording along with that newer recording of the Violin Concerto. Looking forward to digging into those recordings. I’ve also been rather impressed with all of the chamber music I’ve heard from Korngold recently (CPO recordings).
“There will be sunshine again and the violins will sing of peace on earth.” - Closing line from Weinberg’s Symphony No. 6, Op. 79