Your All-time 5 Favorite Literary Works

[Mirror Image]

Nothing like hyperbole to enhance a recommendation.

If the member is enthusiastic about the work, then I find no fault in them giving an opinion no matter how extravagant it is. If I recall, you made some rather extravagant assertions yourself about Bernstein's Mass on another forum:

I wouldn't describe Bernstein's Mass as a "mess." Over the years the critical opinion of the work has risen considerably, so that today that it is considered not only one of his best works but an important work of the 20th century.

So why are you allowed a free pass to say what you want, but if someone else gives an opinion that you don't agree with its "hyperbole"?

[Florestan]

If the member is enthusiastic about the work, then I find no fault in them giving an opinion no matter how extravagant it is. If I recall, you made some rather extravagant assertions yourself about Bernstein's Mass on another forum:

So why are you allowed a free pass to say what you want, but if someone else gives an opinion that you don't agree with its "hyperbole"?

I never heard Bernstein's Mass nor read the Berserk Manga but I'd say that "an important work of the 20th century" might or might not apply to the former yet "one of the greatest achievements in the history of mankind" is surely hyperbole in relation to the latter. I mean, come on, it just can't be in the same league as Dante, Goethe or Tolstoy, can it?

[Mirror Image]

I never heard Bernstein's Mass nor read the Berserk Manga but I'd say that "an important work of the 20th century" might or might not apply to the former yet "one of the greatest achievements in the history of mankind" is surely hyperbole in relation to the latter. I mean, come on, it just can't be in the same league as Dante, Goethe or Tolstoy, can it?

Let people have their opinions. I think the Watchmen is one of greatest works of literature of all-time, but the fact that it's a comic brings a certain group of people out of the wood work to tell me otherwise or to grow up. San Antone could have respectfully said "I disagree", but instead chose to post a smart ass assertion instead, but what this actually told me was more about San Antone than the member who gave an extravagant opinion. My various dealings with San Antone is that he likes for people to believe he's some kind of arbiter of truth and what he says is what the reality is, but the way he comes across to me is someone who believes that every one has poor taste and his is superior in every way. In other words, a superiority complex of the highest order. Oh and don't say something negative about Bernstein's Mass or challenge the very notion of what jazz music is, because you're in for a verbal onslaught.

[Ganondorf]

Thanks for defending me, John.  However, maybe I am just naïve but I chose to take San antone's comment as tongue-in-cheek-style. I'm probably wrong but I didn't feel that insulted by it, though I still think Berserk manga is God-hand (pun) tier.

[San Antone]

Thanks for defending me, John.  However, maybe I am just naïve but I chose to take San antone's comment as tongue-in-cheek-style. I'm probably wrong but I didn't feel that insulted by it, though I still think Berserk manga is God-hand (pun) tier.

I am happy you were wise enough to do that.   

[Mandryka]

I never heard Bernstein's Mass

It's a mess, especially at the end.

[Karl Henning]

If the member is enthusiastic about the work, then I find no fault in them giving an opinion no matter how extravagant it is. If I recall, you made some rather extravagant assertions yourself about Bernstein's Mass on another forum:

So why are you allowed a free pass to say what you want, but if someone else gives an opinion that you don't agree with its "hyperbole"?

You're way off, John. Explain, please, how "I wouldn't describe Bernstein's Mass as a 'mess.' Over the years the critical opinion of the work has risen considerably, so that today that it is considered not only one of his best works but an important work of the 20th century." is hyperbole. No, is an extravagant assertion.

[Karl Henning]

I never heard Bernstein's Mass nor read the Berserk Manga but I'd say that "an important work of the 20th century" might or might not apply to the former yet "one of the greatest achievements in the history of mankind" is surely hyperbole in relation to the latter. I mean, come on, it just can't be in the same league as Dante, Goethe or Tolstoy, can it?

"one of the greatest achievements in the history of mankind" is hyperbole. Full stop.

[ritter]

"one of the greatest achievements in the history of mankind" is hyperbole. Full stop.

Not when talking about Parsifal!  (Sorry, couldn't help it....and good evening to you, Karl).

[Brian]

Just to inject some levity into the proceedings...there are probably only a very few things that would fall into the category of "greatest achievements in the history of mankind." The moon landings. The eradication of diseases like smallpox and polio. The criminalization of slavery and (ongoing, endangered) notion of equal rights for all humans. The invention of the chocolate chip cookie. My posts on GMG.

You know. Only a few things. 

[Mirror Image]

Not when talking about Parsifal!  (Sorry, couldn't help it....and good evening to you, Karl).

Now I'd get onboard with this assertion. I think Parsifal is an absolute masterpiece. Hope you're well, Rafael.

[Mirror Image]

Just to inject some levity into the proceedings...there are probably only a very few things that would fall into the category of "greatest achievements in the history of mankind." The moon landings. The eradication of diseases like smallpox and polio. The criminalization of slavery and (ongoing, endangered) notion of equal rights for all humans. The invention of the chocolate chip cookie. My posts on GMG.

You know. Only a few things. 

I'd also nominate blackened trout to this list.

[Todd]

You know. Only a few things. 

You forgot nacho cheese.

[Mirror Image]

You're way off, John. Explain, please, how "I wouldn't describe Bernstein's Mass as a 'mess.' Over the years the critical opinion of the work has risen considerably, so that today that it is considered not only one of his best works but an important work of the 20th century." is hyperbole. No, is an extravagant assertion.

I understand, Karl, but this member still had a right to say whatever the hell he wanted to express their opinion of a book they were enthusiastic about. San Antone was just being a snob. That's how I read his comment. I won't discuss this any further as I've already derailed Manabu's thread with these posts.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

Not a novel but Kentaro Miura's Berserk manga is one of the greatest achievements in the history of mankind. However one has to be acquainted with how to read manga and also, a big warning: Berserk is very very VERY dark and adult-themed full of disturbing elements. Yet it is also is very very VERY well done, capable of presenting vilest things imaginable without the characters doing those things themselves been in any way exaggerated or caricaturish and with great subtlety. There is also great dark humor in it. And the art style is simply STUNNING.

Nice post, Dorf! I will read the work next time I visit Japan. I am not familiar with manga in new generation, but I grew up with manga and I know that some works are very artistic and philosophical (ie. Phoenix, Osamu Tezuka). Today, some mangas even become literary works and vice versa.  Good manga works rather take advantage of the mangas' limitation on dialogue, narration, and visual movement for enhancing artistic beauty. The less is more.

Manga has been evolved from Japanese traditional/mass art, Kamishibai( pictorial storytelling on the street), which possibly began in the 11-12th century.

[vandermolen]

One of my favourites:

[Biffo]

One of my favourites:

An interesting choice and it reminds me I ought to resume reading the Tintin adventures. I have them all in French and was working my way through them but for no real reason came to a halt. I have the animated series derived from the Casterman Edition; it is excellent but I miss Milou's 'thought bubbles', the best of these is in Vol 714 Pour Sydney but I won't spoil it for anyone who hasn't already read it.

[vandermolen]

An interesting choice and it reminds me I ought to resume reading the Tintin adventures. I have them all in French and was working my way through them but for no real reason came to a halt. I have the animated series derived from the Casterman Edition; it is excellent but I miss Milou's 'thought bubbles', the best of these is in Vol 714 Pour Sydney but I won't spoil it for anyone who hasn't already read it.

I think that there was a 'Golden Period' of Tintin in the 1950s and early 60s which included 'The Calculus Affair' (hilarious helicopter sequence over Lake Geneva), 'Tintin in Tibet' and 'The Castafiore Emerald'. I also like 'The Seven Crystal Balls' and its sequel 'Prisoners of the Sun'. I think that I started a Tintin thread some years ago. I was furious when my mother threw my whole collection out (other than 'The Red Sea Sharks') when I was at university - I had to buy them all again as an adult 

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

A slightly related issue (for me) is that books for children tend to have a lot of illustrations whereas books for adult readers have few or no illustrations. Personally I don't think this is a good idea/custom. Sophisticated, artistic illustrations in books for adults would enhance the impact of stories as well as the artistic quality of whole books. The price would increase for such books with illustrations, but I would gladly pay for higher price.

[Florestan]

A slightly related issue (for me) is that books for children tend to have a lot of illustrations whereas books for adult readers have few or no illustrations. Personally I don't think this is a good idea/custom. Sophisticated, artistic illustrations in books for adults would enhance the impact of stories as well as the artistic quality of whole books.

Agreed.

I think, though, that in the 19th century things were different, at least in France, where Gustave Doré illustrated Dante, Cervantes, Balzac, Poe, Coleridge and Jules Verne's novels were published with illustrations.