Comfort Zone --- Good or Bad?

[Brian]

HV - I don't even mean that, necessarily - it's not that I haven't reached the requisite age needed to understand them more deeply. As a college kid I only listened to the adagio of Bruckner 7, because I didn't like the fast parts. (This is a big thing with literature though...there are definitely writers I've tried and been unready for *cough* Proust *cough*.) It's just that I love really connecting with and exploring something new, hearing an amazing work for the first time. So kinda decided to save some of those first times as treats for later.

[DavidW]

There was a heated debate on whether pianists should be recording a cycle of Beethoven's Piano Sonatas when they are in their 20s and 30s (sparked by Igor Levit's cycle getting praise from critics) or should it marinate over decades of life experience (not piano playing experience).

Well that since seems like a stupid debate since Beethoven himself was in his 20s when he wrote his early sonatas which are all considered masterpieces.  And what about Schubert?  That was a young man that wrote some of the most poignant, emotional works ever.  Not every pianist is Kempff and not every composer is Carter.  Young musicians can and will do amazing things.

[Todd]

It's just that I love really connecting with and exploring something new, hearing an amazing work for the first time. So kinda decided to save some of those first times as treats for later.

That's sensible.  I have not consciously saved any repertoire until later in life, though I have listened to almost no baroque opera, and very little Italian opera up through the mid-19th Century, Rossini excepted.  Perhaps those time periods will yield the most wonderful operas of all and I will thank myself for putting them off until my dotage.  Or not.

[DavidW]

Not the exact debate, but what do you think of Historical Tempo Reconstruction movement? I ask this here because this seems like something that will be very much out of many folk's comfort zones, as it most definitely "reimagines" classical music in a manner that might strike the ear as odd.

Here is Beethoven's Hammer played in full: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFYdLxDcF90

AuthenticSound is amusing because he has devoted an entire channel to fighting swift tempi!  I found that channel not long after I watched a documentary on Klemperer who late in life took slow tempi, but delivered some very moving performances!

[Todd]

Not the exact debate, but what do you think of Historical Tempo Reconstruction movement?

I've not read about it, but looking at the timing of the linked performance, it is clearly wrong from a historical perspective.  Beethoven himself stated that the sonata should be played in thirty-some minutes (I can't remember the exact duration).  I tried the first minute of the opening movement and then jumped to the Adagio, and the performance does not work for me.  I may take a listen at some point, when I can free up eighty-three minutes.  I'm pretty sure I'm more inclined to revisit Frederic Rzewski's sixty-six minute take more often, though for much different reasons.

[Brian]

That's sensible.  I have not consciously saved any repertoire until later in life, though I have listened to almost no baroque opera, and very little Italian opera up through the mid-19th Century, Rossini excepted.  Perhaps those time periods will yield the most wonderful operas of all and I will thank myself for putting them off until my dotage.  Or not.

Come to think of it, I haven't heard any complete Rossini operas either. But that is likely to change very soon as for whatever reason I'm really in tune with what he's doing in the overtures right now.

[staxomega]

Well that since seems like a stupid debate since Beethoven himself was in his 20s when he wrote his early sonatas which are all considered masterpieces.  And what about Schubert?  That was a young man that wrote some of the most poignant, emotional works ever.  Not every pianist is Kempff and not every composer is Carter.  Young musicians can and will do amazing things.

I am not disagreeing.

Where did this heated debate take place? 

Of course pianists in their teens (Melodie Zhao) and twenties (eg, Friedrich Gulda, HJ Kim) should record the sonatas if they want and feel they are ready.  The idea that people in their 30s may not be ready due to age and "life experience", whatever that means, is ridiculous on its face.  The results can be great, good, or mediocre, just like with pianists of any age.  And it is crucial to remember that pianists' techniques decline with age.  Similarly, Bruckner can be conducted by men or women under the age of 70.

SymphonyShare. But the demographic would also be ones that would want to obsessively hear the June 4, 1943 AM radio broadcast concert of conductor X and everything else they recorded. This was only brought up as something interesting to me as I conflated Brian's thought on saving these mature works until he is older (which he has cleared up) to people thinking that one must be a mature (in age) musician before they can record some of these late works.

HV - I don't even mean that, necessarily - it's not that I haven't reached the requisite age needed to understand them more deeply. As a college kid I only listened to the adagio of Bruckner 7, because I didn't like the fast parts. (This is a big thing with literature though...there are definitely writers I've tried and been unready for *cough* Proust *cough*.) It's just that I love really connecting with and exploring something new, hearing an amazing work for the first time. So kinda decided to save some of those first times as treats for later.

Got it, it sounded like you were saving them to be able to appreciate them more at an older age ("I have deliberately avoided because I want there to be something great and transportive to hear for the first time when I'm older.").

Not arguing with any of your reasons, to me it is a depressing thought thinking of missing out on 15-20 years of not listening to some of my favorite works from your list, Brahms' late piano music (as it was mentioned on that page) or some works I'm naming as I have them in recent memory - Rachmaninoff's All Night Vigil, Herreweghe conducting Schütz's Musikalische Exequien, etc. All of that more mature style.

I completely get that wanting to really connect with and explore something new. I suppose with the time constraint issue that was also discussed on the previous page I made more time to obsessively hear various performances like the Brahms late piano works than explore more daring repertoire like Cage and Feldman which I've only come to really appreciate in the last couple of years.

[Brian]

It is definitely also true that things I heard 5-15 years ago and set aside as "not my thing" become discoveries later in life when they finally do become "my thing" (the best example recently being Bartók).

That is another reason to leave your comfort zone: because we actually don't know where our comfort zones end. They may be wider than we think.

[amw]

My comfort zone shrinks with each passing year as part of an ongoing process of cognitive and psychological deterioration, likely associated with aging. It's probably been years since I had any interest in attending new music concerts or had any interest in hearing music by composers outside a small circumscribed group of five or ten. I can't deny that I was healthier when I wasn't limited to a comfort zone, and I tend to extrapolate this to others as well, and assume that sticking to what you already like is a sign of deterioration in other people as well, but this is probably unfair. There are people who thrive in their comfort zones, rather than continually finding the margins of those zones shrinking into nothingness and restricting them further and further as time goes on. It's clearly a very individual thing.

[Mirror Image]

Erm, John, purposely avoiding composers of whom the "collective wisdom" thinks highly is as near a class of contrarianism as no matter. But let it go.

Perhaps you should've let it go, Karl. I expressed how I felt and my reasoning for following my own path. I'm proud that I did, too. I have no regrets for the musical choices I have made. I currently have a pool of maybe 100 composers from which I can draw from and this enough to keep one busy for 30 lifetimes.

[Todd]

It's clearly a very individual thing.

This is true.  As I have aged, my comfort zone for music has expanded.  My comfort zone in other areas has gotten smaller, though - in food, for instance, or movies.  I can't watch one more super hero movie, for instance.

[Brian]

This is true.  As I have aged, my comfort zone for music has expanded.  My comfort zone in other areas has gotten smaller, though - in food, for instance, or movies.  I can't watch one more super hero movie, for instance.

This would be a fun thread or a fun digression in this one. My comfort in food and music has expanded dramatically while my range of alcohol, TV, books, etc has shrunk.

[Todd]

This would be a fun thread or a fun digression in this one.

Good idea.

Music – expanded
TV – expanded
Travel – expanded
Photography (activity/subjects/gear [esp vintage]) – expanded
YouTube time sink – expanded, alas
Apparel – expanded
Non-book reading – expanded
Books – same
Coffee – same
Non-music/non-photography art – same
Movies – contracted
Food – contracted
Alcohol – contracted (ie, I know what I like)
Stereo gear – contracted (ie, I know what I like)
Yardwork – contracted (I didn't think it was possible; I was wrong)

[DavidW]

This would be a fun thread or a fun digression in this one. My comfort in food and music has expanded dramatically while my range of alcohol, TV, books, etc has shrunk.

For me all those have increased but not necessarily dramatically.

Food: I've always been open to that, I'm the type that is likely to order something new or cook a new recipe.
Music: I push myself to sometimes listen to pop music as that is outside my comfort zone.  Most classical is in my comfort zone.
TV: thanks to streaming and better shows I've done much more genre hopping than I used to do.
Books: I occasionally push myself to read classics or nonfiction as I usually don't.  I read in most genres.  But never romance, but I can see myself giving it a shot at least for novelty.  Booktube has certainly helped open my eyes, especially with people like Steve Donoghue who reads anything and everything.

[Florestan]

I think Mirror Image has a point. He's under no obligation whatsoever to like, or even to try liking, Mozart and Beethoven --- just as I am under no obligation whatsoever to like, or even to try liking, the Second Viennese School. There's too much music, too little time and money is in short supply. One makes decisions and choices based on one's own taste. There's no one single right way to do it, or rather, there are as many right ways as listeners.

[Florestan]

This would be a fun thread or a fun digression in this one. My comfort in food and music has expanded dramatically while my range of alcohol, TV, books, etc has shrunk.

Taking as reference 30 years ago (I will turn 50 coming December):

Music - expanded
Literature - ditto
Painting - ditto
Movies - contracted; I've never been much of a cinephile anyway but today I can live for weeks or even months without watching any movie
Food - expanded
Alcohol -  pretty much stayed the same (I found what I like rather early and stuck to it ever since)

As for TV, I wish I could drastically cut the amount of time I spend watching it: 90% of what I see is drivel.

[Mirror Image]

I think Mirror Image has a point. He's under no obligation whatsoever to like, or even to try liking, Mozart and Beethoven --- just as I am under no obligation whatsoever to like, or even to try liking, the Second Viennese School. There's too much music, too little time and money is in short supply. One makes decisions and choices based on one's own taste. There's no one single right way to do it, or rather, there are as many right ways as listeners.

Absolutely and I didn't mean to come off sounding like a contrarian as Karl rightfully pointed out. And for the record, I do like Beethoven rather a lot these days even if he didn't quite make much of an impression on me earlier on. I don't think I could live without his late SQs for example. Some of the greatest music ever composed. Love his symphonies and concerti, too. I do like the early Romantics, too like Berlioz and Mendelssohn. Berlioz is actually in my "Top 10" favorite composers.

[Florestan]

Interestingly enough, even the comfort zone can have a few uncomfortable spots. Much as I tried, I never warmed up to Bruckner, his music does absolutely nothing for me, I find it intolerably turgid, overblown and boring (save the Fourth). Ditto for Wagner. And yet, their lifespan (or is it lifetime?) fall squarely within my comfort zone.

[Mirror Image]

Interestingly enough, even the comfort zone can have a few uncomfortable spots. Much as I tried, I never warmed up to Bruckner, his music does absolutely nothing for me, I find it intolerably turgid, overblown and boring (save the Fourth). Ditto for Wagner. And yet, their lifespan (or is it lifetime?) fall squarely within my comfort zone.

I love both Bruckner and Wagner, but I don't listen to them too often. If one is under a time constraint, neither composer will be an ideal listen.

[Jo498]

I love both Bruckner and Wagner, but I don't listen to them too often. If one is under a time constraint, neither composer will be an ideal listen.

I also find that regardless of the time and leisure needed, I am not always into "intense" music. If pieces are both long and intense like Mahler, Bruckner, Wagner, they need special occasions... Applies for me even to late Beethoven and Schubert where it is a bit mitigated that not all pieces are so long and they are chamber music, so not as loud...
This is of course mainly a "problem" of recordings. A live concert or opera is and was usually rare and special enough to be in the state of mind to appreciate e.g. Wagner (although his operas are so long that they are also strenuous in the theater).