Would anyone here like to participate in this?

[Florestan]

Who am I that I would do otherwise? I'm at most just one person, and not a musically-gifted or musically-trained one.

I am neither musically gifted nor musically trained yet I have firm preferences and stick to them --- the music I listen to should give pleasure, and be enjoyable, to me, not to other people. I can be lectured about how great Bruckner and Wagner are all day long by knowledgeable people who do enjoy their music --- that won't change the fact that they bore the hell out of me and I'm not going to waste my time forcing myself to like them.

At this point I mostly listen to music that is unlikely to be regarded as "great and worthwhile."

Maybe putting it this way will help: I gain more pleasure in learning about music that is new to me than I gain from listening to something I already know. So the question is what I will learn about next.

How can we help you finding something new to enjoy when we don't even know what you already enjoy?

[coffee]

I am neither musically gifted nor musically trained yet I have firm preferences and stick to them --- the music I listen to should give pleasure, and be enjoyable, to me, not to other people. I can be lectured about how great Bruckner and Wagner are all day long by knowledgeable people who do enjoy their music --- that won't change the fact that they bore the hell out of me and I'm not going to waste my time forcing myself to like them.

That's all fine with me. We don't have to do the same things.

How can we help you finding something new to enjoy when we don't even know what you already enjoy?

What I enjoy is maximizing the odds of knowing about something that is likely to come up in conversation with people I respect.

[coffee]

I don't respect your opinions about the value of the list. I think the list is completely stupid. But I'm done trying to rescue you from it.

I'm sure our opinions of each other are approximately symmetrical.

[Florestan]

I do know about some things, just not how to analyze music.

For God's sake, you are not supposed to analyze music but to listen to it and enjoy it. Leave musical analysis to professionals.

[coffee]

It took me a while, but I think I get what this guy is after.  In fact he said it quite clearly at one point:

It is not about his own listening pleasure, but about appearing knowledgeable when discussing music e.g. with a bunch of strangers on the Internet.  This is not an ambition that I'm ever likely to share, but if you did, then getting a bunch of strangers on the Internet to compile a list of the works that they consider important might not be a completely stupid idea.

Yes, that's it exactly!

[coffee]

For God's sake, you are not supposed to analyze music but to listen to it and enjoy it. Leave musical analysis to professionals.

There is an old, romantic (in the sense of coming from the culture of romanticism) dichotomy between pleasure and analysis. That does not match my experience. I'm more of a modernist in the sense that analysis itself is what brings me most pleasure. 

In a sense, I believe the professionals work for me. I want to understand what they find.

[Florestan]

Yes, that's it exactly!

Well, then I'm afraid GMG is the wrong place for you. We talk about music for the sake of it and the enjoyment thereof, not in order to appear knowledgeable and well-informed about things we actually have no deep interest in for their own sake. I doubt you'll find one single kindred spirit here.

[coffee]

Well, then I'm afraid GMG is the wrong place for you. We talk about music for the sake of it and the enjoyment thereof, not in order to appear knowledgeable and well-informed about things we actually have no deep interest in for their own sake. I doubt you'll find one single kindred spirit here.

I doubt I'll find many anywhere -- if I am honest about it this way. But why would I ever actually do that?

In a sense, classical music (and high culture in general) is our religion, and Machiavelli's advice is as relevant as ever: it is necessary to seem religious, but unwise to be religious.

[coffee]

It's our opinions about ourselves that are at issue.

Those are probably not symmetrical. 

[Florestan]

There is an old, romantic (in the sense of coming from the culture of romanticism) dichotomy between pleasure and analysis. That does not match my experience. I'm more of a modernist in the sense that analysis itself is what brings me most pleasure. 

Yes, based on your posts that's exactly my impression. Music for you is not as much a source of pleasure and enjoyment as it is a pretext for intellectualizing. Nothing wrong with that, of course but as I said in my previous post, you're not likely to find many here with the same mindset.

[Florestan]

Actually, there are myriads of topics people discuss on the internet that you could have chosen to appear knowledgeable about. Why particularly classical music?

[prémont]

Actually, there are myriads of topics people discuss on the internet that you could have chosen to appear knowledgeable about. Why particularly classical music?

This is precisely what I have been asking myself about all the time while reading this thread. And why particularly classical music when it does not in itself give coffee any joy. There is something futile about his efforts.

[coffee]

This is precisely what I have been asking myself about all the time while reading this thread. And why particularly classical music when it does not in itself give coffee any joy. There is something futile about his efforts.

I do enjoy music very much though. It's just that my enjoyment isn't my highest priority -- especially not in terms of making choices about what to listen to next.

[Florestan]

I do enjoy music very much though. It's just that my enjoyment isn't my highest priority -- especially not in terms of making choices about what to listen to next.

What's your highest priority then when listening to a specific musical work? More general, why do you listen to music?

[prémont]

I do enjoy music very much though. It's just that my enjoyment isn't my highest priority -- especially not in terms of making choices about what to listen to next.

It shows how different we are, because if my first priority in dealing with music wasn't the urge to enjoy it, I probably wouldn't deal with it at all.

[coffee]

What's your highest priority then when listening to a specific musical work? More general, why do you listen to music?

Highest priority = to learn something.

Why? I guess it has something to do with membership in human society. That's a question for evolutionary psychologists perhaps.

[Florestan]

Highest priority = to learn something.

What have you learned from listening to Mozart's Clarinet Concerto?

[coffee]

What have you learned from listening to Mozart's Clarinet Concerto?

Well, before taking the test, what have I got to gain from it?

[Florestan]

Well, before taking the test, what have I got to gain from it?

You will learn something.

[coffee]

You will learn something.

I think I have, actually!

I should not have written that my highest priority is to improve my standing among people who care whether I've listened to Mozart's clarinet concerto.