Author Topic: Would anyone here like to participate in this?  (Read 1728 times)

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Offline coffee

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Would anyone here like to participate in this?
« on: June 22, 2022, 07:50:25 PM »
Please see this link: Classical Music: Recommended Works, but Prioritized

A few years ago I attempted to begin a project like this here and the results were (to me) very interestingly different from those I got doing this on other fora. Unfortunately, there was also so much unhappiness with the idea of this project and criticism of each other's voting that I angrily decided not to do it here. I somewhat regret that. If we have some interest here, I will create a thread where people can vote on that project.

We would begin with the lowest tier and work our way up.

Also, even if there is no interest in voting on this project here, feel free to let me know if you know of any works that are missing from our list. I'll add them to the lowest tier and if people feel they should be recommended more strongly, they'll get promoted through the voting. Here is an unranked, alphabetical list of the works we've recommended.


« Last Edit: June 22, 2022, 08:04:30 PM by coffee »
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Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Would anyone here like to participate in this?
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2022, 05:04:16 AM »
My problem with this kind of project is it determines nothing other than we like music. It seems more like a pissing contest than anything rewarding. This is just my two measly cents.
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Offline DavidW

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Re: Would anyone here like to participate in this?
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2022, 05:21:45 AM »
I agree.  Also apparently the good members at TC think that romantic era music is far more important than any other era.  And in fact they seem to think that Brahms is worth the same as most other composers combined.  Sad.


Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Would anyone here like to participate in this?
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2022, 05:24:15 AM »
Please see this link: Classical Music: Recommended Works, but Prioritized

A few years ago I attempted to begin a project like this here and the results were (to me) very interestingly different from those I got doing this on other fora. Unfortunately, there was also so much unhappiness with the idea of this project and criticism of each other's voting that I angrily decided not to do it here. I somewhat regret that. If we have some interest here, I will create a thread where people can vote on that project.

We would begin with the lowest tier and work our way up.

Also, even if there is no interest in voting on this project here, feel free to let me know if you know of any works that are missing from our list. I'll add them to the lowest tier and if people feel they should be recommended more strongly, they'll get promoted through the voting. Here is an unranked, alphabetical list of the works we've recommended.


I scrolled down the Recommended Works, but Prioritized doc, at first out of curiosity to learn just how many tiers there were, and then to see what some of the off-the-beaten-path works were. I'm mildly curious, too, about the occasional Empty Tier.
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Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Would anyone here like to participate in this?
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2022, 05:26:54 AM »
My problem with this kind of project is it determines nothing other than we like music. It seems more like a pissing contest than anything rewarding. This is just my two measly cents.

It's not nearly as thrilling as a Top 700 pieces of music list.  ::)

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Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Would anyone here like to participate in this?
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2022, 05:30:42 AM »
I agree.  Also apparently the good members at TC think that romantic era music is far more important than any other era.  And in fact they seem to think that Brahms is worth the same as most other composers combined.  Sad.

In fairness, there are many other threads here in "The Polling Station" that could be viewed in the same light --- I created plenty of them. However, this particular idea from this member seems to go beyond the idea of a "Top 10" or whatever poll and tries to determine the best works of all-time based on individual member votes. Sorry, but they have enough of these polls on TC and I hope they never come to this forum. Colossal wastes of time.
"Humility is society's greatest misconception."

My "Top 5" Favorite Composers: Debussy, Mahler, Strauss, Sibelius and Bartók


Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Would anyone here like to participate in this?
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2022, 05:34:34 AM »
It's not nearly as thrilling as a Top 700 pieces of music list.  ::)

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I already made this point, Gurn.
"Humility is society's greatest misconception."

My "Top 5" Favorite Composers: Debussy, Mahler, Strauss, Sibelius and Bartók


Offline Florestan

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Re: Would anyone here like to participate in this?
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2022, 05:43:31 AM »
I agree.  Also apparently the good members at TC think that romantic era music is far more important than any other era.  And in fact they seem to think that Brahms is worth the same as most other composers combined.  Sad.

Mozart popping up for the first time only in the sixth tier, Haydn only in the thirteenth and Chopin only in the sixteenth? Gimme a break.

My opinion is that the good folks at TC are mostly teenagers / youngsters who have only recently discovered "classical music", ie mostly Beethoven and Mahler. GMG is vastly more sophisticated, being to TC what calculus is to arithmetic.  ;D
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Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Would anyone here like to participate in this?
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2022, 05:46:46 AM »
I already made this point, Gurn.

I don't think you added sufficient sarcasm to it though. ;)

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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Would anyone here like to participate in this?
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2022, 05:53:30 AM »
(* chortle *)
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Offline DavidW

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Re: Would anyone here like to participate in this?
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2022, 07:36:23 AM »
Mozart popping up for the first time only in the sixth tier, Haydn only in the thirteenth and Chopin only in the sixteenth? Gimme a break.


Ouch!  Relegating top tier composers to the bottom of the barrel.  Yeah I think you might be right about TC, or at least the TC members that like to vote in polls! :D

Offline Daverz

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Re: Would anyone here like to participate in this?
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2022, 01:12:21 PM »
Mozart popping up for the first time only in the sixth tier, Haydn only in the thirteenth and Chopin] only in the sixteenth? Gimme a break.

But that seems to be where the good stuff is on this list.   8)

Beethoven 9 as a first priority?  Just...no.  It took me decades to appreciate that work.  I feel similarly about all the Bach and Wagner.  I sense a heavy bias toward Germanic music here.

Offline (: premont :)

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Re: Would anyone here like to participate in this?
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2022, 01:30:21 PM »
Sorry, but they have enough of these polls on TC and I hope they never come to this forum. Colossal wastes of time.

What MI said!

As soon as a word has left the lips, not even the fastest horse can catch up with it.

Offline coffee

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Re: Would anyone here like to participate in this?
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2022, 10:01:14 PM »
tries to determine the best works of all-time

It explicitly says that it does not do that.

"Naturally our list represents the knowledge and tastes of the people who have helped build it. No one claims that it is the single official objective canon of art music!"

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Offline coffee

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Re: Would anyone here like to participate in this?
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2022, 10:03:24 PM »
Mozart popping up for the first time only in the sixth tier, Haydn only in the thirteenth and Chopin only in the sixteenth? Gimme a break.

My opinion is that the good folks at TC are mostly teenagers / youngsters who have only recently discovered "classical music", ie mostly Beethoven and Mahler. GMG is vastly more sophisticated, being to TC what calculus is to arithmetic.  ;D

The first work by Mozart is on the fourth tier, behind only 8 other works.

Even the sixteenth tier is a very high tier, higher than 98% of the recommended works.

If you guys really are so much better than the folks at TC and amazon, you should be eager to help us fix this list.

Or is it just all bluster? You just want to huff about how superior you are, or you want to share your expertise?

« Last Edit: June 24, 2022, 01:31:18 AM by coffee »
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Offline coffee

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Re: Would anyone here like to participate in this?
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2022, 10:04:02 PM »
I scrolled down the Recommended Works, but Prioritized doc, at first out of curiosity to learn just how many tiers there were, and then to see what some of the off-the-beaten-path works were. I'm mildly curious, too, about the occasional Empty Tier.

The empty tiers are there to prepare to split a tier that is too large. 
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Offline coffee

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Re: Would anyone here like to participate in this?
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2022, 10:05:48 PM »
Ouch!  Relegating top tier composers to the bottom of the barrel.  Yeah I think you might be right about TC, or at least the TC members that like to vote in polls! :D

The bottom of the barrel right now currently features these works:

Abrahamsen: Left, Alone (Piano Concerto) [2016]
Adigozalov: Piano Concerto #4 [1994]
Aguila: Concierto en Tango for cello and orchestra [2014]
Aguilera de Heredia: Obra on the eighth tone for organ "Ensalada"
Alexandrov: State Anthem of the Soviet Union [1943]
Alwyn: String Quartet #3 [1984]
Argento: Postcard from Morocco [1971]
Auerbach: La Suite dels Ocells [Homage to Pablo Casals] [2015]
Ballou: Concerto for Solo Guitar and Chamber Orchestra [1964]
Ballou: Prelude and Allegro for String Orchestra and Piano [1951]
Barrett, R.: life-form [2012]
Bax: String Quartet #2 [1925]
Bazzini: String Quartet #2 in D minor, op. 75 [1875]
Bedrossian: Twist [2016]
Bendix: Piano Concerto in G minor, op. 17 [1884]
Berg, N.: Symphony #5 "Trilogia delle Passioni" [1924]
Berio: Sequenza XI for guitar [1988]
Bériot: Violin Concerto #9 in A minor, op. 104 [1859]
Berkeley, M.: Oboe Quintet "Into the Ravine" [2012]
Berkeley: Piano Concerto in B-flat, op. 29 [1947-48]
Boieldieu: Piano Concerto #1 in F [c. 1792]
Bologne: String Quartets (6), op. 1 [c. 1770]
Bray: At the Speed of Stillness [2012]
Bridge: The Hour Glass, H.148 [1919-20]
Bruhns: Prelude in E minor "The Great" [late 17th century]
Brüll: Andante and Allegro, op. 88 [1902]
Buck: Concert Variations on "The Star-Spangled Banner", op. 23 [1868]
Budashkin: Domra Concerto [1943]
Carter: Horn Concerto [2006]
Chávez: Paisajes Mexicanos (Variaciones sinfónicas) [1973]
Chavez: Soli III for four soloists and orchestra [1965]
Cmiral: Altered Mind of 20-20 [2020]
Coates, G.: Holographic Universe for violin and orchestra [1975]
Coates, G.: Nightscape for contrabass and percussion [2008]
Coates, G.: String Quartet #8 [2001/2002]
Coates, G.: Symphony #16 "Time Frozen" [1993]
Coates, G.: Symphony #8 "Indian Sounds" for voices and orchestra [1991]
Coates, G.: The Force for Peace in War [1973]
Costa: Aphoristic Madrigal [2015]
Coulthard: Twelve Essays on a Cantabile Theme [1972]
Crosse: Some Marches on a Ground [1970]
Crosse: The Demon of Adachigahara [1968]
Cutting: Lute music, including "Divisions on Greensleeves" [late 16th century]
Danielpour: Darkness in the Ancient Valley [2011]
Daugherty: Deus Ex Machina [2007]
Dean: Voices of Angels [1996]
Demessieux: Te Deum, op. 11 [1959]
Dench: ik(s)land[ s] [1997-8]
Donatoni: Etwas ruhiger im Ausdruck [1967]
Dusapin: Item, for cello [1985]
Dusapin: Musique captive, for chamber ensemble [1980]
Enescu: Chamber Symphony in E, op. 33 [1954]
eRikm, Ferrari, & Lehn: Les Protorythmiques [2007]
Escher: Le Tombeau de Ravel [1952; rev. 1959]
Fano: Sonata for Two Pianos [1952]
Ferneyhough: Sisyphus Redux [2010]
Foss: String Quartet #3 [1976]
Fragoso: 7 Preludes [c. 1923?]
Franssens: Harmony of the Spheres [1994-2001]
Freeman: Under the Arching Heavens - A Requiem [2018]
Gilbert: Tsukimi (Moon Viewing) [2013]
Ginastera: Piano Concerto #2, op. 39 [1972]
Gomes: Lo schiavo [1889]
Granados: Dante [1908]
Gretchaninov: Mass "Et in terra pax", op. 166 [1942]
Gretchaninov: Missa Sancti Spiritus for Chorus and Organ, op. 169 [1943]
Gretchaninov: Symphony #2, op. 27, "Pastoral" [1908]
Gretchaninov: The Seven Days of Passion (Strastnaya Sedmitsa) [1911]
Groven: Symphony #2, op. 34 "Midnattstimen" ("The Midnight Hour") [1934]
Haas, G. F.: AUS.WEG [2010]
Haas, G. F.: Concerto Grosso #1 [2014]
Haas, G. F.: Trombone Concerto [2016]
Harper: Fanny Robin [1971]
Harper: Symphony #2 "Miracles" [2007]
Heininen: String Quartet #1, op. 32c [1974]
Henze: String Quartet #5 [1976]
Hermanson: Lyrical Metamorphosis [1957]
Herz: Rondo de concert, op. 27 [c. 1850]
Hindemith: String Quartet #3 in C [1920]
Hoddinott: Euphonium Concerto, op. 180 "The Sunne Rising, The King will Ride" [2002]
Holliger: Dona Nobis Pacem [1968-69]
Holloway: Violin Concerto, op. 70 [1990]
Hölszky: Dämonen [2006]
Hosokawa: The Raven [2011]
Ichiyanagi: Sapporo [1962]
Jolivet: Piano Concerto [1951]
Kagel: An Tasten [1977]
Kalafati: Légende, op. 20 [1928]
Kalomiris: Symphony #3 "Palamiki" [1955]
Kancheli: Chiaroscuro [2010]
Kaprálová: Piano Concerto in D minor [1935]
Kerem: Symphony #3 "For the Victims of Communism" [2003]
Kernis: Color Wheel [2001]
Kessler: , said the shotgun to the head. for poetry speaker, rap choir, string quartet, and orchestra [2003]
Kessler: Utopia II for 5 voices, 41 instruments, and live electronics [2011]
Kirchner, L.: String Quartet #4 [2006]
Kirchner, T.: Nachtbilder, op. 25 [1877]
Klebe: Die Zwitschermaschine, op. 7 [1949-50]
Korte: Piano Sonata [1953]
Krenek: Organ Concerto #2, op. 235 [1982]
Krenek: Piano Sonata #7, op. 240 [1988]
Lizée: Hitchcock Études [2010]
Lourié: Concerto Spirituale [1929]
Lumbye: Champagne Galop, op. 14 [1845]
Macklay: Many Many Cadences [2014]
Malec: Sonoris Causa [1997]
Manén: Symphony #2 "Ibérica" [1958]
Manoury: Cryptophonos for piano solo [1974]
Manz: E’en So, Lord Jesus, Quickly Come [1953]
Marshall: Gradual Requiem [1980]
Martinů: Clarinet Sonatina, H. 356 [1956]
Martucci: Nocturnes, op. 70 [1891?]
Mashayekhi: "Nous ne verrons jamais les jardins de Nishapour", op. 56 [1977]
Matsumura: Piano Concerto #2 [1978]
McCabe: Cloudcatcher Fells [1985]
McCabe: Piano Sonata "Study #12: Homage to Tippett" [2009]
McEwen: Symphony #5 in C-sharp minor "Solway" [1911]
Mennin: Symphony #5 [1950]
Mercury/Zilber: Bohemian Rhapsody [1975]
Mertz: Bardenklänge, op. 13 [1847-50]
Messiaen: Cantéyodjayâ [1948]
Miller: Duet for cello and orchestra [2015]
Moross: Symphony #1 [1941-42]
Muczynski: Preludes (6), op. 6 [1954]
Neuwirth: Masaot/Clocks without Hands [2013]
Nielsen: Chaconne, op. 32 [1916]
Orff & Keetman: Musik für Kinder [1930-3, rev. 1950-4]
Pabst: Piano Concerto in E-flat [1882]
Palau: Concierto Levantino (Concert of Valencia) [1947-59]
Pärt: Sarah Was Ninety Years Old [1977, rev. 1990]
Paulus: Concerto for String Quartet and Orchestra "Three Places of Enlightenment" [1995]
Pembaur: Cello Concerto in B minor, op. 86 [1910]
Pepping: Symphony #2 in F minor [1942]
Pereira: Concertino for Cello and String Orchestra [2010]
Perry: The Silent Years: Three Rhapsodies for Piano and Orchestra [2010]
Pinkham: Christmas Cantata (Sinfonia Sacra) [1998]
Pisaro: Fields Have Ears [2010]
Popper: Cello Concerto #2 in E minor, op. 24 [1880]
Pousseur: Paysages Planétaires [2000]
Prangcharoen: Piano Concerto "Luminary" [2016]
Ries: Clarinet Sonata in G minor, op. 29 [1809]
Rouse: Symphony #4 [2013]
Roussel: Psalm 80, op. 37 [1928]
Różycki: Violin Concerto, op. 70 [1944]
Ruehr: Cloud Atlas [2011]
Ryu: Sinfonia da Requiem [2009]
Rzewski: Whangdoodles [1990]
Saariaho: Nuits, adieux [1991]
Sallinen: The Palace Rhapsody, op. 72 [1996]
Sawyers: Homage to Kandinsky [2014]
Sawyers: Symphony #4 [2017]
Saygun: Partita for Solo Violin, op. 36 [1961]
Schafer: Apocalypsis [1980]
Schoenberg: Herzgewächse (Foliage of the Heart), op. 20 [1911]
Schwanter: Piano Concerto #2 [2011]
Searle: 2 Practical Cats [1953]
Segerstam: Symphony #253 "Crazily alone at Christmas, but in the family of universes of sounds" [2011]
Sheng: Shanghai Overture [2007]
Shinohara: Alternance [1962]
Sköld: Horn Concerto, op. 74 [1977]
Slonimsky, S.: Requiem [2004]
Slonimsky, S.: Sonata for Piano [1962]
Slonimsky, S.: Symphony #10 "Infernal Circles" [1992]
Smit, L: Concerto for Viola and Strings [1940]
Smolka: My My Country [2012]
Šulek: Trombone Sonata "Vox Gabrieli" [1973]
Sviridov: String Quartet #1 [1945–6]
Sørensen: Rosenbad - Papillon, for piano quintet [2013]
Taïra: Aiolos [1989]
Tanguy: Sénèque, dernier jour: concerto pour récitant et orchestre [2004]
Tate: Tracing Mississippi [2001]
Tchaikovsky, B.: Piano Concerto [1971]
Tchaikovsky, B.: Violin Concerto [1969]
Tchaikovsky, B.: Violin Sonata [1959]
Terterian: Symphony #8 [1989]
Thompson: The Peaceable Kingdom [1936]
Toch: Burlesken (Burlesques), op. 31 [1923]
Torke: An American Abroad [2002]
Ullmann: String Quartet #2 [1935]
Van der Aa: Imprint [2005]
Van der Aa: The Book of Sand, digital interactive song cycle [2015]
Van der Aa: Up-close, for cello solo, string ensemble, soundtrack & film [2010]
Van der Aa: Violin Concerto [2014]
Veldhuis: Paradiso [2001]
Wallin: Stonewave [1990]
Weir: Storm [1997]
Wilder: Children's Plea for Peace for narrator, children's chorus and wind ensemble [1968]
Wishart: Globalalia [2004]
Yoshida: Utsu-Semi [1979]

Note that we're recommending specific works, not composers, and the question I would pose to the superior beings here is which of these works would you recommend most strongly?

 

« Last Edit: June 23, 2022, 10:15:31 PM by coffee »
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Offline coffee

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Re: Would anyone here like to participate in this?
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2022, 10:09:51 PM »
It seems more like a pissing contest than anything rewarding.

What is a pissing contest?
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Offline MusicTurner

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Re: Would anyone here like to participate in this?
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2022, 10:20:46 PM »
Sorry, but I don't have enough time, and when one's taste has become somewhat solid through a lot of listening of all genres, such very long lists often appear of less interest (I own music by about 100 of these lastly listed composers, and there are certainly many goodies on that list). But TC seems to be the place for them to flourish - and this pretty overwhelmingly.

Also, when seeing the long alphabetical list, and taking a look at the first A-composers, I disagree with many of the work selections - which is rather typical and, in a way, personally frustrating.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2022, 01:07:33 AM by MusicTurner »

Offline foxandpeng

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Re: Would anyone here like to participate in this?
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2022, 11:33:02 PM »
The first work by Mozart is on the fourth tier, behind only 8 other works.

If you guys really are so much better than the folks at TC and amazon, you should be eager to help us fix this list.

Or is it just all bluster? You just want to huff about how superior you are, or you want to share your expertise?

I don't think it is an issue of superiority but of difference. There is real value in different forums having their own flavour, and enjoying those differences without rancour or partisanship.

For me, this list carries less personal interest. I know lots of traditionally well-known works will top the poll in the same way that Classic FM will always celebrate certain pieces. Many of the works I enjoy most don't even appear on this list, and if they did, wouldn't rate in the 'top tiers'. Doesn't necessarily say anything about their quality. Holmboe symphonies and SQs, Simpson, Peter Maxwell Davies to name just three from a host of glaring omissions.

Edit:

It is always nice to see quieter or less active members posting in the music areas at GMG. It would be nice to see you sharing the music you love, coffee, and contributing your own likes. It can be harder to gain traction in a community when inflammatory language starts to appear.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2022, 11:54:10 PM by foxandpeng »
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