Would anyone here like to participate in this?

[Roasted Swan]

So basically these tiers are like Dante's circles of hell but without the jokes.......?  Asking for a friend.

[coffee]

So basically these tiers are like Dante's circles of hell but without the jokes.......?  Asking for a friend.

Paradiso, but fewer Italians.

[coffee]

Apparently we have to get all philosophical.

Why does music exist?

I assume for the moment that we are limiting ourselves to human music, not counting (for example) birdsong.

So music exists because humans have evolved to make it and take pleasure in it. But why did that happen? Why were our musical ancestors able to survive and reproduce better than their nonmusical kin?

My guess -- only a guess -- is: 

The biggest factor in how well an individual survived or reproduced in our evolutionary past (probably now as well, going back a few million years) is how well they fit into a successful group. One factor in the success of a group would be how cohesive it was. Members of the more cohesive groups had access to more resources (especially food) than those of less cohesive groups because they'd be better able to win violent conflicts over those resources. And within the successful groups, the higher status individuals had more resources than lower status ones did.

All that is relevant because making and appreciating music obviously continue to be ways we mark our membership in a group, i.e. our identity.

And our skill in doing so is one of the factors that affects our status within the group.

This is my best guess as to why music exists, why it is so emotionally compelling. This is also my guess for some other culturally-variable human universals: clothing and makeup, dialects, belief in spirits, culinary traditions.

[Florestan]

I think I have, actually!

I should not have written that my highest priority is to improve my standing among people who care whether I've listened to Mozart's clarinet concerto.

My question was genuine and honest. I am really interested in what you have learned from listening to Mozart's Clarinet Concerto.

[coffee]

My question was genuine and honest. I am really interested in what you have learned from listening to Mozart's Clarinet Concerto.

My question is genuine and honest too. Why am I going to submit to this grilling?

[Florestan]

My question is genuine and honest too. Why am I going to submit to this grilling?

Grilling?

Man, if you can't stand your beliefs and worldview being questioned then perhaps you should avoid internet fora altogether.

Beside, one's repeatedly avoiding answering a question usually means one doesn't have an answer.

[Maestro267]

9 pages in...have we answered the question of the thread title?

[coffee]

Grilling?

Man, if you can't stand your beliefs and worldview being questioned then perhaps you should avoid internet fora altogether.

Beside, one's repeatedly avoiding answering a question usually means one doesn't have an answer.

I already intended to correct myself, though I see I did it wrong: 

I should not have written that my highest priority is to improve my standing among people who care whether I've listened to Mozart's clarinet concerto.

Oh, my, that is a terrible mistake. I don't know how that "not" got in there.

I meant the opposite of that:

I should have written that my highest priority is to improve my standing among people who care whether I've listened to Mozart's clarinet concerto.

[Florestan]

I should have written that my highest priority is to improve my standing among people who care whether I've listened to Mozart's clarinet concerto.

I don't care whether you've listened to Mozart's Clarinet Concerto. I am interested in what you have learned from listening to it. And you're certainly not going to improve your standing by avoiding to answer the question yet again.

[coffee]

I don't care whether you've listened to Mozart's Clarinet Concerto. I am interested in what you have learned from listening to it. And you're certainly not going to improve your standing by avoiding to answer the question yet again.

Are you intending to answer the question about what I have to gain?

Because I'm not trying to improve my standing with you.

Like I said before, I suspect that if we met in real life, I'd play the same game you'd play, and I'd play it about as well as you.

[Florestan]

Are you intending to answer the question about what I have to gain?

I already answered that question. You will gain knowledge.

[coffee]

I already answered that question. You will gain knowledge.

I don't think I will, or at least I need some more evidence that I will before I agree to take this class. I've already said I can't analyze music very well.

[Florestan]

I don't think I will, or at least I need some more evidence that I will before I agree to take this class. I've already said I can't analyze music very well.

It's not in the least about analyzing music. It's about telling us in your own words what you learned from listening to Mozart's Clarinet Concerto. Why you find the question so vexing is beyond me.

[Mandryka]

I do that when I want to do it. I've done it here sometimes too. I rarely do it anywhere anymore, but I'd rather not say why because I'd rather not cause any offense.

Is this what people call passive aggressive? It's certainly a performative with an offensive illocutionary effect.

[coffee]

It's not in the least about analyzing music. It's about telling us in your own words what you learned from listening to Mozart's Clarinet Concerto. Why you find the question so vexing is beyond me.

I am having trouble imagining what you're after. Could you give me an example of what you mean? I.e. what did you learn from listening to Mozart's Requiem?

[coffee]

Is this what people call passive aggressive? It's certainly a performative with an offensive illocutionary effect.

Ah, let me be direct then.

Most discussion does not interest me very much.

[Florestan]

I am having trouble imagining what you're after. Could you give me an example of what you mean? I.e. what did you learn from listening to Mozart's Requiem?

It's not me who said that the highest priority in listening to music is to learn something. It's you who said that.

Actually, forget about Mozart. Pick whatever piece of music you want and tell us what you have learned from listening to it.

[Brian]

Wow, the last time I saw this thread, it was just two posts, the original and a single reply. I thought, "This doesn't sound interesting," and went to read something else instead. How on earth did it get to 192 replies of flame war and fighting and insults??

Either a lot of us need better hobbies, or we need to start some more interesting discussions 

[DavidW]

Wow, the last time I saw this thread, it was just two posts, the original and a single reply. I thought, "This doesn't sound interesting," and went to read something else instead. How on earth did it get to 192 replies of flame war and fighting and insults??

Either a lot of us need better hobbies, or we need to start some more interesting discussions 

Yeah no kidding!  The level of vitriol on this thread is through the roof.  I don't think I've seen posters so galvanized since Rob Newman's infamous thread.

[Karl Henning]

Yeah no kidding!  The level of vitriol on this thread is through the roof.  I don't think I've seen posters so galvanized since Rob Newman's infamous thread.

And to so little purpose. If coffee is following his bliss, and his was an invitation, not any compulsion, why does anyone want to jam him up?