Arthur Honegger (1892-1955)

Started by vandermolen, August 31, 2007, 12:43:08 AM

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Mirror Image

Honegger's neglect continues to baffle me. Surely one of the most distinctive composers of the 20th Century. What's remarkable is how he stayed in Paris during WWII. It kind of reminds the way Shostakovich stayed in the Soviet Union during the Stalin Era. There was so much remarkable music written around this time.

Dundonnell

Quote from: Mirror Image on January 24, 2012, 06:09:42 PM
Honegger's neglect continues to baffle me. Surely one of the most distinctive composers of the 20th Century. What's remarkable is how he stayed in Paris during WWII. It kind of reminds the way Shostakovich stayed in the Soviet Union during the Stalin Era. There was so much remarkable music written around this time.

Aah! Honegger, Paris and the War-interesting topic ;D

Honegger, as you know, was a Swiss citizen although he was born in France and lived most of his life there. Reliable sources suggest that he was determined to remain in Paris after 1940 because he had come to regard the city as 'home'.

His music was performed in Paris during the war without apparent restriction by the German authorities although it disappeared from German concert-halls after 1933. Honegger himself joined a Resistance group within the city but was left alone by the Germans. After the Liberation a temporary ban was imposed on Honegger's music by the French because he was seen as someone whose 'record' needed to be investigated and clarified. Honegger was very bitter about this ban but it was lifted after a few months.

There seems to be a degree of dubiety about the precise relationship between Honegger and the authorities between 1940 and 1944 although the composer himself was quite clear that he was a strong opponent of the Invasion and the Occupation.

Mirror Image

Quote from: Dundonnell on January 25, 2012, 08:57:55 AM
Aah! Honegger, Paris and the War-interesting topic ;D

Honegger, as you know, was a Swiss citizen although he was born in France and lived most of his life there. Reliable sources suggest that he was determined to remain in Paris after 1940 because he had come to regard the city as 'home'.

His music was performed in Paris during the war without apparent restriction by the German authorities although it disappeared from German concert-halls after 1933. Honegger himself joined a Resistance group within the city but was left alone by the Germans. After the Liberation a temporary ban was imposed on Honegger's music by the French because he was seen as someone whose 'record' needed to be investigated and clarified. Honegger was very bitter about this ban but it was lifted after a few months.

There seems to be a degree of dubiety about the precise relationship between Honegger and the authorities between 1940 and 1944 although the composer himself was quite clear that he was a strong opponent of the Invasion and the Occupation.

Such an interesting history isn't it, Colin? :) But, as with composers, especially during this turblent time, the music speaks louder than any of their words or actions could.

snyprrr

I've been prejudiced against the piece Rugby (Mouvement symphonique n. 2) because of the title, and don't know if I've ever really listened to it. So I talked myself into it, having Toulouse and Plasson (DG) to guide me. I'm almost sure I've never listened to the other piece either, but, so I'm listening to 'Rugby', and, it's an awesome piece, just insane with colliding movement, and I declare it a Masterpiece. Then the nest piece comes on, but I must go.

But the thing was, I had actually just listened to Pacific 231. I had completely forgotten about that piece! So, yes, wow, what a tumult of a piece, definitely,... didn't Xenakis study with Honegger for just one minute? ::) I actually read all 7 Pages of this Thread, so I know everyone's cds, and I know you all think yours is the best. I mean, this one was just as good, right? haha :D

Another piece I have similar silly prejudice against is Prelude for 'The Tempest', which seems to crown Honegger as 'King of the 5min. Tempest' (probably a great Thread opportunity there, eh?). This piece, too, I loved at first listen. I have a second version, Comstamt on Erato, which is even much more tempestuous than Plasson (4:21 to 5:05). The Pastorale d'ete was over before I heard two notes.

But I payed attention to the three selections from 'Phaedra', with the last, Mort de Phaedra, revealing itself as one of Honegger's eeriest pages. Can I get a witness?


I had quite a Honegger-mania there a few years ago. but I still haven't increased the Library since the SQs. There's a long Post with a lot of small, mouth watering pieces that all come piecemeal (ugh). Anybody up for a Honegger Binge?

Mirror Image

Quote from: snyprrr on March 07, 2012, 08:48:50 PM
I've been prejudiced against the piece Rugby (Mouvement symphonique n. 2) because of the title, and don't know if I've ever really listened to it. So I talked myself into it, having Toulouse and Plasson (DG) to guide me. I'm almost sure I've never listened to the other piece either, but, so I'm listening to 'Rugby', and, it's an awesome piece, just insane with colliding movement, and I declare it a Masterpiece. Then the nest piece comes on, but I must go.

But the thing was, I had actually just listened to Pacific 231. I had completely forgotten about that piece! So, yes, wow, what a tumult of a piece, definitely,... didn't Xenakis study with Honegger for just one minute? ::) I actually read all 7 Pages of this Thread, so I know everyone's cds, and I know you all think yours is the best. I mean, this one was just as good, right? haha :D

Another piece I have similar silly prejudice against is Prelude for 'The Tempest', which seems to crown Honegger as 'King of the 5min. Tempest' (probably a great Thread opportunity there, eh?). This piece, too, I loved at first listen. I have a second version, Comstamt on Erato, which is even much more tempestuous than Plasson (4:21 to 5:05). The Pastorale d'ete was over before I heard two notes.

But I payed attention to the three selections from 'Phaedra', with the last, Mort de Phaedra, revealing itself as one of Honegger's eeriest pages. Can I get a witness?


I had quite a Honegger-mania there a few years ago. but I still haven't increased the Library since the SQs. There's a long Post with a lot of small, mouth watering pieces that all come piecemeal (ugh). Anybody up for a Honegger Binge?

I had quite a Honegger binge a couple of weeks ago, where were you? :D Anyway, I think he's a fine composer and his music really hits me emotionally. Underneath all of the gruff exterior lies a man whose soul was in complete turmoil. I think he had a lot of anger and it's loud and clear in his music. But I've seen several pictures of him smiling so I know he couldn't be that angry, but many people hide their true emotions quite well and I'm no exception.

Anyway, I love his music and glad you're enjoying it too, snyprrr. 8)

snyprrr

Quote from: Mirror Image on March 07, 2012, 08:55:17 PM
I had quite a Honegger binge a couple of weeks ago, where were you? :D Anyway, I think he's a fine composer and his music really hits me emotionally. Underneath all of the gruff exterior lies a man whose soul was in complete turmoil. I think he had a lot of anger and it's loud and clear in his music. But I've seen several pictures of him smiling so I know he couldn't be that angry, but many people hide their true emotions quite well and I'm no exception.

Anyway, I love his music and glad you're enjoying it too, snyprrr. 8)

He's definitely a throwback in the day of Poulenc and Milhaud, et al. You can tell he's trying to foster 'Beethoven Hair', no? ;D I like the pictures of him dressed 'normal'. He seems like one of the first Composer's to get a little hip, though he looks like he'd love to have lived in LvB's day.

Mirror Image

Quote from: snyprrr on March 07, 2012, 09:50:46 PM
He's definitely a throwback in the day of Poulenc and Milhaud, et al. You can tell he's trying to foster 'Beethoven Hair', no? ;D I like the pictures of him dressed 'normal'. He seems like one of the first Composer's to get a little hip, though he looks like he'd love to have lived in LvB's day.

A throwback in the day of Poulenc and Milhaud? Perhaps, but he was Swiss of German descent while the rest of Les Six were obviously French and quite fashionable. Honegger didn't care if his music was fashionable or not, but it was Modern no doubt about quite possibly even more so than Poulenc or Milhaud. The hair totally worked for Honegger by the way. I love the way Honegger's image alone came across as being pissed off all the time. 8)

Johnll

Ok Snyprrr you have a witness, and I will put in a good word for Plasson/Orchestra Toulouse. My post is really about a rarity namely Shostakovich's version of Honegger's third symphony for two pianos. I will be the first to admit it is not a personal favorite. It is on Guild, Soos and Haag on the keyboards.  This reviewer is a fan of the disc. It is on Mog (and probably Spotify, NML) so decide for yourself.
http://dschjournal.com/reviews/cd_reviews/rvs34ophon.htm

eyeresist

#128
Quote from: eyeresist on February 01, 2012, 05:19:51 PMI have a couple of cycles of Honegger's symphonies (Plasson, Dutoit) plus the Karajan disc, but the listening experience is consistently dreery. I had a set of Martinu's piano concertos, which bored me; a disc of symphonies 1 and 2 (Flor) did delight my ears, though not thematically striking, and, as MI pointed out, notespinning. My choice for further investigation would definitely be Martinu.

And so having said this I of course went for Honegger.
I got out my two sets (Plasson and Dutoit) and compared them - this is often a good way to get to know a work. Dutoit obviously has the better sound; sadly Plasson has rather unrewarding sound, "sadly" because I think he sounds much more committed to the music. I will credit Dutoit for taking the slow movements of 1 and 4 at properly slow tempos. Otherwise, I prefer Plasson.
EDIT: I have since revised my opinion, and now prefer Dutoit. Less attention-grabbing, but his light touch suits these works admirably.

I also have Karajan's 2/3 disc. I have trouble with these two symphonies; I always lose concentration during the slow movements.

I think this nifty set may be my next purchase:
[ASIN]B004ZARYFK[/ASIN]

CD1 -
Pacific 231 - Jansons/Oslo
Symphony No. 2 - Munch/Paris
Danse de la Chèvre  - Jonathan Snowden [seems to be a short number for solo flute]
Cello Concerto - Rostropovich/Dubrovsky
Symphony No. 4 - Plasson/Toulouse

CD 2 -
Pastorale D'été - Martinon/Orchestre National De L'Ortf
Symphony No. 3 - Jansons/Oslo
Rugby - Martinon
Concerto da Camera - Solum/Dilkes/English Sinfonia

Mirror Image

Quote from: eyeresist on April 09, 2012, 08:18:05 PM
And so having said this I of course went for Honegger.
I got out my two sets (Plasson and Dutoit) and compared them - this is often a good way to get to know a work. Dutoit obviously has the better sound; sadly Plasson has rather unrewarding sound, "sadly" because I think he sounds much more committed to the music. I will credit Dutoit for taking the slow movements of 1 and 4 at properly slow tempos. Otherwise, I prefer Plasson.
I also have Karajan's 2/3 disc. I have trouble with these two symphonies; I always lose concentration during the slow movements.

I think this nifty set may be my next purchase:
[ASIN]B004ZARYFK[/ASIN]

CD1 -
Pacific 231 - Jansons/Oslo
Symphony No. 2 - Munch/Paris
Danse de la Chèvre  - Jonathan Snowden [seems to be a short number for solo flute]
Cello Concerto - Rostropovich/Dubrovsky
Symphony No. 4 - Plasson/Toulouse

CD 2 -
Pastorale D'été - Martinon/Orchestre National De L'Ortf
Symphony No. 3 - Jansons/Oslo
Rugby - Martinon
Concerto da Camera - Solum/Dilkes/English Sinfonia

I don't like the Plasson or Dutoit at all. My choice for a complete set is still Baudo although I'm anxious to get my hands on Luisi's set but it's hard to find and when you do find it's quite expensive. For individual recordings of symphonies/orchestral works, Jarvi, Karajan, Zinman, and Jansons will do nicely.

eyeresist

Quote from: Mirror Image on April 09, 2012, 08:27:03 PMI don't like the Plasson or Dutoit at all. My choice for a complete set is still Baudo although I'm anxious to get my hands on Luisi's set but it's hard to find and when you do find it's quite expensive. For individual recordings of symphonies/orchestral works, Jarvi, Karajan, Zinman, and Jansons will do nicely.
Must admit I'm slightly surprised you have no kind words for Dutoit! Do you know if his King David is any good? There's a 2-CD set with orchestral things conducted by Constant that I have my eye on.
Karajan is good, though as I said I'm still struggling with those works. I'm a bit surprised to see Neeme Jarvi recommended for anything ;)

Mirror Image

#131
Quote from: eyeresist on April 09, 2012, 08:37:17 PM
Must admit I'm slightly surprised you have no kind words for Dutoit! Do you know if his King David is any good? There's a 2-CD set with orchestral things conducted by Constant that I have my eye on.
Karajan is good, though as I said I'm still struggling with those works. I'm a bit surprised to see Neeme Jarvi recommended for anything ;)

There's no edge in Dutoit's Honegger recordings. All of the performances are glossed over with his typical French sheen which does not suit this music at all. I only like a few Dutoit recordings (i. e. Ravel Daphnis et Chloe, his Poulenc, Ibert). I own his King David but I haven't even heard it yet. I doubt I will anytime soon either. Jarvi is a fine conductor IMHO. I admire many of his recordings.

snyprrr

Quote from: eyeresist on April 09, 2012, 08:37:17 PM
Must admit I'm slightly surprised you have no kind words for Dutoit! Do you know if his King David is any good? There's a 2-CD set with orchestral things conducted by Constant that I have my eye on.
Karajan is good, though as I said I'm still struggling with those works. I'm a bit surprised to see Neeme Jarvi recommended for anything ;)

I'd try to get the old Erato single by Constant (Used).

I have the 2-cd,... maybe I'll try a bit of the King David later. I think this one is full orchestration. Dutoit is probably bettered in every piece, though. Nice Piano Concertino, though.

vandermolen

This is a great 3 CD set of Honegger's music.  Ansermet has been very undervalued but coming in for a re-evaluation I think. This set sees the first CD release of Ansermet's fine version of the 'Liturgique Symphony', my favourite work by this composer.  As a bonus you get a deeply moving performance of Frank Martin's 'In Terra Pax' from the end of World War Two.
[asin]B0075480RY[/asin]
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

bumtz

Any opinions on the new Jurowski / LPO Honegger release?


vandermolen

Quote from: bumtz on April 10, 2012, 04:05:56 PM
Any opinions on the new Jurowski / LPO Honegger release?



Bit disappointing. Nice recording quality but thought performance of Symphony No 4 underpowered - much prefer the old Ansermet. The Christmas Cantata is much better. Still, a good CD but not great in my view and the programme is nice.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

eyeresist

Quote from: Mirror Image on April 09, 2012, 08:45:10 PMJarvi is a fine conductor IMHO. I admire many of his recordings.

I did a comparison of samples of the 5th, and Jarvi is now definitely on my list!

Mirror Image

Quote from: eyeresist on April 11, 2012, 05:25:02 PM
I did a comparison of samples of the 5th, and Jarvi is now definitely on my list!

I knew you would give in. It really was just a matter of time. ;) :D

Cato

Quote from: vandermolen on April 10, 2012, 12:04:51 PM
This is a great 3 CD set of Honegger's music.  Ansermet has been very undervalued but coming in for a re-evaluation I think. This set sees the first CD release of Ansermet's fine version of the 'Liturgique Symphony', my favourite work by this composer.
[asin]B0075480RY[/asin]

Yes, Ansermet's efforts were always worthy of a listen!  Especially with Honegger!

Not to be forgotten, from the early stereo era:

[asin]B000025R6S[/asin]

Serge Baudo and the Czech Philharmonic.

And amazingly, this LP cover from the 60's - which I always thought was hysterical - was posted on Google!



"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

eyeresist

That cover doesn't exactly encourage the right attitude to the music :(