Arthur Honegger (1892-1955)

Started by vandermolen, August 31, 2007, 12:43:08 AM

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CriticalI

Quote from: Mirror Image on October 04, 2012, 07:46:11 PMAnyway, getting back to Honegger, have you heard Honegger's Monopartita? It's his last orchestral work and a lovely one at that.

Another one I need to hear again! I have it on a 2-CD set with Dutoit conducting King David, a piece I really don't care for (I also have the Ansermet recording).

Mirror Image

 :(
Quote from: CriticalI on October 04, 2012, 07:56:33 PM
Another one I need to hear again! I have it on a 2-CD set with Dutoit conducting King David, a piece I really don't care for (I also have the Ansermet recording).

Yeah, Le Roi David is really for Honegger completists only. I think Honegger was at his best in orchestral music. He knew how to manupilate the orchestra and his orchestration was always quite varied. I, too, have this 2-CD Apex set, but I have yet to listen the 2nd disc. I need to change this! The only performance of Monopartita I heard is Zinman's. Let me know your thoughts of this work once you have listened to it again.

vandermolen

"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Mirror Image

#203
Quote from: vandermolen on October 05, 2012, 01:33:57 AM
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2012/Oct12/Honegger_syms_SOB02.htm

Thanks for this Jeffrey. The reviewer kept comparing this 3rd performance with Karajan's stating that they liked it better, but, to be honest, I don't much care for Karajan's anymore, so this means I'll probably like this particular performance more than they did. :)

vandermolen

Quote from: Mirror Image on October 05, 2012, 07:02:12 AM
Thanks for this Jeffrey. The reviewer kept comparing this 3rd performance with Karajan's stating that they liked it better, but, to be honest, I don't much care for Karajan's anymore, so this means I'll probably like this particular performance more than they did. :)

Yes, it's true that not everyone likes the Karajan - one reviewer found it too 'militaristic' but I think that the haunting birdsong at the end is unrivalled in the Karajan version.  I have ordered the new version and will report back in due course.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Mirror Image

Quote from: vandermolen on October 06, 2012, 12:36:13 AM
Yes, it's true that not everyone likes the Karajan - one reviewer found it too 'militaristic' but I think that the haunting birdsong at the end is unrivalled in the Karajan version.  I have ordered the new version and will report back in due course.

Yeah, I hope I get this Honegger/Davies recording in the mail today.

Mirror Image

Getting back to this thread after a long hiatus, I listened to that Davies recording and I found it quite weak compared to the Karajan. I know I mentioned that I didn't much care for the Karajan performance, but I'm starting to see that performance's merit much more clearly now. Oh, how I wish Bernstein had conducted more Honegger to make even more comparisons. I wonder what drew Karajan to record Honegger's 2nd and 3rd? Ilaria, our Karajan expert, could you perhaps answer this one? :)

Mirror Image

Does anyone here own the Fabio Luisi cycle on Cascavelle label? This is an absolutely first-rate set and blows Dutoit out of the water, which was easy to do anyway since I don't think Dutoit's style of conducting suits Honegger's more rigid, angular style. The Luisi set is incredibly difficult to track down and when you do you'll most certainly pay for it.

Mirror Image

No Honegger nuts here have heard Fabio Luisi's symphony set? ??? Not even Jeffrey?

vandermolen

Quote from: Mirror Image on March 29, 2013, 07:05:53 AM
No Honegger nuts here have heard Fabio Luisi's symphony set? ??? Not even Jeffrey?

Hello John! Have been away from the forum due mainly to pressure of work. I do have the Luisi set somewhere in the myriad piles of CDs here (OCDCDCD). It's a while since I played it but I'll try to fish it out over the weekend and report back.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Mirror Image

Quote from: vandermolen on March 29, 2013, 02:28:54 PM
Hello John! Have been away from the forum due mainly to pressure of work. I do have the Luisi set somewhere in the myriad piles of CDs here (OCDCDCD). It's a while since I played it but I'll try to fish it out over the weekend and report back.

I'm glad to see you posting again, Jeffrey. I have to say I'm very impressed with Luisi's performances. As I mentioned, I thought of them better than Dutoit and equal, and in some cases much better, than Baudo.

pjme

#211
Last friday Dutch radio programmed "Judith" ( in its oratorio form, with "récitante") and the ( all too short) Cantique de Pâques.

Cantique de Pâques is extremely lovely : three female soloists( sop.,mezzo,alto) female chorus and orchestra.
It is a fragment Honegger kept from a never finished project "Mystère de Pâques"

Its six minutes have a Debussyan transparency ( harp, celesta..), but clearly prefigures le roi David.

Judith is a biblical drama which exists in three versions:
1/ as a "drame biblique" (1928) written for le Théâtre du Jorat ( idem Le roi David) and scored for an orchestra, including harmonium, 2 piano's, strings and percussion.
2/as an " opera sérieux"
3/as an "action musicale" or oratorio for speaker, soli, chorus and orchestra.

Radio Kamer Filharmonie
Groot Omroepkoor
Paula Murrihy, mezzosopraan (Judith)
Marie-Eve Munger, sopraan
Olivia Vermeulen, mezzosopraan (Servante)
Liesbeth List, récitante
Ani Sargsyan, mezzosopraan

Honegger - Cantique de Pâques
Haydn - Symfonie nr. 49 'La passione'
Honegger - Judith

http://radio.omroep.nl/u/187400/?silverlight

One can listen again to the performance. Liesbet List is an ageing "chansonnière" ... rather awkward choice for the role of "récitante".
Even so, it's good to see that Honegger's music is performed

I suppose that soon the concert can be seen aswell
http://www.radio4.nl/webcasts
( check it out - plenty of great performances to be seen & heard there)


Mirror Image

Jeffrey, have you given Luisi's Honegger a listen yet?

vandermolen

Quote from: Mirror Image on April 01, 2013, 06:08:28 PM
Jeffrey, have you given Luisi's Honegger a listen yet?

Still can't find it  :o

I'll report back as soon as I do!
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Mirror Image

Quote from: vandermolen on April 02, 2013, 10:14:29 AM
Still can't find it  :o

I'll report back as soon as I do!

??? Oh I hope you find it!

snyprrr

Landowski was Honegger's disciple, so, of course we were eager to FINALLY hear the Symphonies of Marcel Landowski, as recorded on a classic old Erato disc that probably most either have, or remember seeing in the record store (remember?, that was the 20th century).

The 1st comes from 1949, and opens similarly to Frank Martin's Violin Concerto, with flutes steadily reiterating in one tempo whilst other music flow beneath and around. I hear more of Martin and Dutilleux than Honegger in Landowski here (perhaps the Honegger is in the rhythmic cadence of the flutes?). The flute(s) theme returns again later, and the Finale is a massive, and impressive, Chorale. This is a very auspicious debut Symphony in my estimation, perhaps a cousin of Dutilleux's; it made me want to compare slightly to a French Henze No.2?

No.3, from 1965, is more advanced, but still playful. Perhaps a playful Lutoslawski? And perhaps again Dutilleux? It is quite cinematic, Landowski mainly known for one particular film which escapes me at the moment (you all know it). It's a good example of what the Old Guard could do in 1965. All Modern 'Devices' are used to generally Tonal Aims, and the music flows freely in two movements equalling 16mins. No.2 exists on a single 28min. disc on the Erato Landowski Box.

The 4th is a summing up from 1988 that continues in ultra-cinematic style in five movements expressing differing soundworlds. Really, the only description is Mid-Century Modern French. I find it somewhat reassuring music from 1988, since it really is a summing up of the French Century.


This disc has been on the radar forever, so, OF COURSE I was just slightly disappointed the the heavens didn't part (though, in Landowski's cinematic style, there is MUCH convincing dramatic music that doesn't come off in the least as movie music). There is something exotic in all of Landowski's music, like it's the dream soundtrack to 'Lost Horizon' or Kubla Khan's Pleasure Dome. It's exotic like Villa-Lobos, but with wholly different scenery,... I keep seeing Kong Island and Pleasure Domes.

I'd say Ohana and Dutilleux and Martin, and some aspects of Honegger, are what I hear in this classic cd. Since it is most likely the one and only introduction one will ever get of Landowski, I want to lay it on the line. Just as much as Myaskovsly is Nostalgic, so are these Symphonies by Landowski, with of course totally different sound worlds and aims.

Landowski strikes the balance between Honegger and Dutilleux.

snyprrr

Quote from: snyprrr on June 11, 2013, 08:05:54 PM
Landowski was Honegger's disciple, so, of course we were eager to FINALLY hear the Symphonies of Marcel Landowski, as recorded on a classic old Erato disc that probably most either have, or remember seeing in the record store (remember?, that was the 20th century).

The 1st comes from 1949, and opens similarly to Frank Martin's Violin Concerto, with flutes steadily reiterating in one tempo whilst other music flow beneath and around. I hear more of Martin and Dutilleux than Honegger in Landowski here (perhaps the Honegger is in the rhythmic cadence of the flutes?). The flute(s) theme returns again later, and the Finale is a massive, and impressive, Chorale. This is a very auspicious debut Symphony in my estimation, perhaps a cousin of Dutilleux's; it made me want to compare slightly to a French Henze No.2?

No.3, from 1965, is more advanced, but still playful. Perhaps a playful Lutoslawski? And perhaps again Dutilleux? It is quite cinematic, Landowski mainly known for one particular film which escapes me at the moment (you all know it). It's a good example of what the Old Guard could do in 1965. All Modern 'Devices' are used to generally Tonal Aims, and the music flows freely in two movements equalling 16mins. No.2 exists on a single 28min. disc on the Erato Landowski Box.

The 4th is a summing up from 1988 that continues in ultra-cinematic style in five movements expressing differing soundworlds. Really, the only description is Mid-Century Modern French. I find it somewhat reassuring music from 1988, since it really is a summing up of the French Century.


This disc has been on the radar forever, so, OF COURSE I was just slightly disappointed the the heavens didn't part (though, in Landowski's cinematic style, there is MUCH convincing dramatic music that doesn't come off in the least as movie music). There is something exotic in all of Landowski's music, like it's the dream soundtrack to 'Lost Horizon' or Kubla Khan's Pleasure Dome. It's exotic like Villa-Lobos, but with wholly different scenery,... I keep seeing Kong Island and Pleasure Domes.

I'd say Ohana and Dutilleux and Martin, and some aspects of Honegger, are what I hear in this classic cd. Since it is most likely the one and only introduction one will ever get of Landowski, I want to lay it on the line. Just as much as Myaskovsly is Nostalgic, so are these Symphonies by Landowski, with of course totally different sound worlds and aims.

Landowski strikes the balance between Honegger and Dutilleux.

Cello Concerto
Violin Concerto
Symphony No.5


Well, well, look what the postman brought!

The CC is a work from the '40s. There are a few pointers as to what, perhaps, a Big, Serious Honegger CC might look like (I'm sure we'll all agree that his is quite Pastoral as is). Stravinsky and the '20s certainly also are present. Still, I'm reminded of the dearth of good CCs @'30s-'40s (yes, I know, Hindemith, Martinu, Ibert,...).

The VC is from the '90s. I quite enjoyed this one, very very lyrical, and it seemed slightly spare,... the violin seems to play mostly solo a lot. The closest compare I'd make would be Lutoslawski, though Landowski is much more tonal. I hear this is on a Menuhin Box.

The Symphony No.5 continues the cinematic Panavision of No.4. To me now, Landowski is the 'Film Music' master. No.5 sounds just as much a revealing of Shangri-La as the No.4 (also Late) was. Parallel chords auger the mysterious, in fact Landowski seems to trade in 'misterioso' passages.

It's hard not to take Landowski for granted: here we sit on the other side of the equation, everything before us; it's hard to give him proper credit when we hear so much cinema flowing by our ears. We've heard snatches of these 'scenes' before, but of course not in 'full length' (movie music is always clipped to the scene). Perhaps I like Salonen's cinema music a bit better, but Salonen's technique is much more saturated and overlapping. Landowski is still from the Old School,... I'd rate him as if Martinu had continued living into the '80s, perhaps?

It also helps to relate Landowski to Honegger; though it's not absolutely obvious, the stylistic similarities lie in the 'humanness' and the turns of mood (?). There's also some Messiaen,Lutoslawski,... perhaps Landowski's main drawback is a similarity to most French Masters without really breaking out with an audacious originality. But, as far as the 'War Generation' goes, Landowski in his later works really does a nice summing up.

Thanks friend

Sergeant Rock

#217
Quote from: snyprrr on July 10, 2013, 07:17:22 AM
The CC is a work from the '40s. There are a few pointers as to what, perhaps, a Big, Serious Honegger CC might look like (I'm sure we'll all agree that his is quite Pastoral as is). Stravinsky and the '20s certainly also are present. Still, I'm reminded of the dearth of good CCs @'30s-'40s (yes, I know, Hindemith, Martinu, Ibert,...).

Moeran (1945)
Weinberg (1948)

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

vandermolen

Quote from: Mirror Image on March 27, 2013, 08:30:58 PM
Does anyone here own the Fabio Luisi cycle on Cascavelle label? This is an absolutely first-rate set and blows Dutoit out of the water, which was easy to do anyway since I don't think Dutoit's style of conducting suits Honegger's more rigid, angular style. The Luisi set is incredibly difficult to track down and when you do you'll most certainly pay for it.

Still trying to find my copy!  ::)
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Mirror Image

Quote from: vandermolen on July 10, 2013, 07:58:01 AM
Still trying to find my copy!  ::)

Wow, it must really be buried somewhere. :)