Interesting, iconic and iconoclastic recordings of The Prague Symphony.

Started by Mandryka, July 02, 2022, 05:21:47 AM

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Mandryka

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

I just had a madeleine moment.

Many years ago I was driving at midnight though some rather glamorous parts of London, it was a Friday or Saturday night, midsummer. The streets were crowded with beautiful and rich people enjoying city life. And on the car radio was playing The Prague Symphony. And the combination of music and place made me very happy to be alive.

For no good reason, I just started listening to Herbert Blomstedt's recording on Denon, and that sense of well-being returned very palpably. It made me think that I need to find a place in my life for Mozart's symphonies again.

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Spotted Horses

I think I first came to love the symphony in a Bohm recording which I now consider rather prosaic. I really learned what it is about with the Harnoncourt, RCO, which I had on vinyl.



There are simply two kinds of music, good music and the other kind. - Duke Ellington

Florestan

Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Jo498

That's probably the first Mozart symphony I distinctly remember hearing as a teenager. It was an LP of 38+39 with Sawallisch/Czech PO. I definitely got to know these two and even a few early ones before 40+41!
Almost 2 years ago I found that Sawallisch recording on CD (last 4 symphonies) but I think it's a bit too straightforward, good, but not very special. My first on CD was Harnoncourt/Concertgebouw. This certainly qualifies for excentric with large orchestra, Harnoncourtesque mannerisms slowish tempo in the first movement and all repeat, so it lasts almost 20 min...
The "classic" recommendation is Maag on Decca (ca. 1960). This is also rather straightforward but has more energy than Sawallisch and very good sound for the vintage, so its reputation is deserved. The later Maag with an Italian orchestra on Arts is a bit more flexible and lyrical, colorful smallish orchestra and also quite good.
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

Mandryka



15 years ago, which is about the last time I listened to this symphony, I was really impressed with the one here. So I'm giving it another go. Now the rubato just feels unnecessary and intrusive, but I've learned that how rubato feels is a very variable thing - one person's meat is another person's poison in the rubato department, and I can feel differently myself depending on how the wind blows.

More worryingly is a heaviness, unsmilingness.

Some of the older ones - the two Maags for example - are too blended a sonority for me. Big international symphony orchestra values, if not faultless implementation of those values. I want to hear the attacks and I want to hear the timbres, I don't want all the music tidily aligned and sweetly consonant. Harnoncourt's sound is one of the main positives about the  recording.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Spotted Horses

I have Bruggen, I don't recall what it is like. There is also Mackerras/Prague, which would be less homogenized than the traditional recordings (but with a harpsichord tinkling away). I seem to have remarkably few recordings of the Mozart symphonies, though I love them.

I stand by Harnoncourt, Concertgebouw, idiosyncrasies notwithstanding.
There are simply two kinds of music, good music and the other kind. - Duke Ellington

Archaic Torso of Apollo

Well I'm just gonna weigh in in favor of good ol' Bruno Walter, who wasn't HIP or anything, but man did he know how to conduct Mozart.

Both the Columbia SO and NYPO recordings are excellent.
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

DavidW

Jacobs for me



On the traditional side, Bohm who was such a marvelous Mozartean in all of his recordings.

Spotted Horses

Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on July 02, 2022, 06:40:08 PM
Well I'm just gonna weigh in in favor of good ol' Bruno Walter, who wasn't HIP or anything, but man did he know how to conduct Mozart.

Both the Columbia SO and NYPO recordings are excellent.

There is also Bruno Walter WPO (live) on DG.
There are simply two kinds of music, good music and the other kind. - Duke Ellington

Karl Henning

Quote from: Jo498 on July 02, 2022, 10:14:55 AM
That's probably the first Mozart symphony I distinctly remember hearing as a teenager. It was an LP of 38+39 with Sawallisch/Czech PO. I definitely got to know these two and even a few early ones before 40+41!

Very interesting!
I rather like Jaap ter Linden, here.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

VonStupp

I believe Rafael Kubelik did another with Chicago on Mercury, but I think I prefer his Bavarian recording.

VS

"All the good music has already been written by people with wigs and stuff."

Spotted Horses

Quote from: VonStupp on July 03, 2022, 07:53:23 AM
I believe Rafael Kubelik did another with Chicago on Mercury, but I think I prefer his Bavarian recording.

I forgot I have that! :)
There are simply two kinds of music, good music and the other kind. - Duke Ellington

Jo498

Quote from: Mandryka on July 02, 2022, 01:15:50 PM

I got this years ago but never listened to it because back then, DVDs were a hassle and I never mentally got used to the fact that they aren't any more with my current setup...

Quote
Some of the older ones - the two Maags for example - are too blended a sonority for me. Big international symphony orchestra values, if not faultless implementation of those values. I want to hear the attacks and I want to hear the timbres,
I think that's not quite fair about the second 1990s? Maag recording with a smallish Italian orchestra; sure, it's still far from HIP but not streamlined (in fact the coupled #39 is so mannered in the finale that I don't like it).
It's probably also too blended for you despite the dryish mono (or very early stereo) sound but a "tough"/lean and mean historical one is Markevitch/DG (not sure about details and availability, I have it in a box).
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

Mandryka

Quote from: Jo498 on July 03, 2022, 08:33:16 AM
I got this years ago but never listened to it because back then, DVDs were a hassle and I never mentally got used to the fact that they aren't any more with my current setup...
I think that's not quite fair about the second 1990s? Maag recording with a smallish Italian orchestra; sure, it's still far from HIP but not streamlined (in fact the coupled #39 is so mannered in the finale that I don't like it).
It's probably also too blended for you despite the dryish mono (or very early stereo) sound but a "tough"/lean and mean historical one is Markevitch/DG (not sure about details and availability, I have it in a box).

No what I said wasn't fair about the second Maag, which I enjoyed much more. Listened to Norrington (Stuttgart) this morning, and to Mackerras (Scottish) last night, but my mind has been rather occupied more by Reger op 74 than by this symphony!  I can say that the Mackerras was nicer than in memory - his Czech recording of the Prague used to be a favourite (but I can't find it!)
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka



A much more interesting sound on this Hogwood recording. Pretty conventional at the level of poetry, I mean there are no unexpected affekts. Alert, but still there's something deeply unsatisfactory about it.  It's as if I'm hearing a well oiled and well practised machine - all the pistons and cogwheels working perfectly in synch. I don't like that, if that's what classical music is about then I don't have a place for it. I don't think music should sound like it's being played by a machine. I don't want to single out Hogwood for a bashing, nearly all of them are like that. And Hogwood's machine sounds good.

Quote from: Mandryka on July 02, 2022, 01:15:50 PM



And this is the big big advantage of this Harnoncourt DVD. They don't sound like clockwork. It's just that, at the level of affekt, expression, they are revisionary and it takes a bit of mental adjustment. Maybe the way to put it is like this: Harnoncourt is more Don Giovanni than Cosi.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Jo498

The symphony has been related to both Don Giovanni (intro, first mvmt.) and Figaro (finale), certainly also because Prague had a special affinity with these operas. Even beyond the intro the first movement is very dramatic and often dark, e.g. the plaintive bassoon figure in the second theme group.
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

Spotted Horses

Quote from: Spotted Horses on July 03, 2022, 08:10:28 AM
I forgot I have that! :)

Started listening to the Kubelik/Chicago recording of Mozart Symphony No 38 on Mercury. Dreary in the extreme.
There are simply two kinds of music, good music and the other kind. - Duke Ellington

Karl Henning

Quote from: Spotted Horses on July 04, 2022, 10:32:50 AM
Started listening to the Kubelik/Chicago recording of Mozart Symphony No 38 on Mercury. Dreary in the extreme.

That's unfortunate.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Mandryka



Started to explore this live one from Haitink in Dresden. Lovely sound, lovely orchestral sound, and a lively interpretation - it moves forward at all times, without ever feeling driven.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen