Author Topic: Tory leadership race.  (Read 823 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Irons

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 4090
  • Location: Surrey, UK
Tory leadership race.
« on: July 12, 2022, 11:42:03 PM »
The most interesting aspect for me is not who will win but the runners and riders. Out of the remaining eight only two are "white middle-class males" and only one schooled at Eaton. Four each of female and male and the most interesting of all, the anti-woke Kemi Badenoch. I don't think she will win, probably drop out today, but I would love it for her to do so. It would turn the world upside down at the next General Election. To have Sir Kier Starmer leading (working class) Labour and a young woman of Nigerian extraction leading the toffs. ??? Starmer v Rishi will be a bore fest.
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

Offline Iota

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1331
  • Location: UK
Re: Tory leadership race.
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2022, 09:40:41 AM »
..  and the most interesting of all, the anti-woke Kemi Badenoch. I don't think she will win, probably drop out today, but I would love it for her to do so. It would turn the world upside down at the next General Election.

Agree, that would be a very interesting development indeed.

Starmer v Rishi will be a bore fest.

Yes indeed, both certainly seem unencumbered by a surfeit of charisma. Sunak particularly comes across as rather robotic to me, though presumably he'd be a steady hand on the economy at a time it's clearly needed.

Edit: Penny Mordaunt might also be a good post-Johnson option, if reports of her integrity/thoroughness are to be believed.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2022, 09:54:29 AM by Iota »

Offline Brian

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 23375
    • Brian's Twitter
  • Location: Dallas, TX
Re: Tory leadership race.
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2022, 09:50:17 AM »
It would turn the world upside down at the next General Election. To have Sir Kier Starmer leading (working class) Labour and a young woman of Nigerian extraction leading the toffs. ???
We had that here in Dallas in our mayoral race. A left-wing straight white man lawyer vs. a right-wing self-made young black man. The young black man won because people made incorrect assumptions about his politics based on his appearance, and ever since he has been engaged in petty squabbles with the rest of the government about how much credit/blame he gets for all the things that happen.

Online vandermolen

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 24717
  • Location: Rotherfield, Sussex, UK
Re: Tory leadership race.
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2022, 12:43:24 AM »
Nice thread idea Lol (maybe in the UK!)
I'm sorry that Jeremy Hunt was voted out - he would have been my favourite.
Any of the other candidates would be incomparably better than Johnson. I don't want Truss. I would choose Tugendhat or Sunak.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Iota

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1331
  • Location: UK
Re: Tory leadership race.
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2022, 01:32:05 AM »
Please not Truss! The mere fact that her main backers were comedy grotesques, Jacob Rees-Mogg and Nadine Dorries, should be a clear enough sign that she wouldn't be right for anybody vaguely normal surely.

Offline ultralinear

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 54
  • What? WHAT???
Re: Tory leadership race.
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2022, 02:16:38 AM »
Sunak make me nervous.  Hedge fund manager ex Goldman Sachs.  It was the appointment of another GS alum (Carney) that started the rot at the BoE.  Not sure that's what the country needs right now.

Online Irons

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 4090
  • Location: Surrey, UK
Re: Tory leadership race.
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2022, 02:37:44 AM »
I would not disagree with any posts above. For different reasons I don't want either Sunak or Truss. Hunt was interviewed on LBC on Sunday and I found him impressive, but that ship has sailed. Mordaunt is coming up on the inside. Her twin brother is transgender which is fine, I have no problem with it. But I do if it influences her policies. She asked Kemi Badenoch to define what a woman is? Kemi retorted "I know what a woman is, I am one! Well said young lady. 
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

Online vandermolen

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 24717
  • Location: Rotherfield, Sussex, UK
Re: Tory leadership race.
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2022, 03:39:18 AM »
I would not disagree with any posts above. For different reasons I don't want either Sunak or Truss. Hunt was interviewed on LBC on Sunday and I found him impressive, but that ship has sailed. Mordaunt is coming up on the inside. Her twin brother is transgender which is fine, I have no problem with it. But I do if it influences her policies. She asked Kemi Badenoch to define what a woman is? Kemi retorted "I know what a woman is, I am one! Well said young lady.
I think that Mordaunt might well win. The Johnson supporters will all campaign against Sunak. I read an article which said the Johnson could have been like a British Reagan - a charismatic personality, who left the detailed work to competent subordinates. Instead of that we ended up with the likes of the talentless Dorries and Rees Mogg, who were only appointed because they were Johnson acolytes.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2022, 03:41:07 AM by vandermolen »
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Online Irons

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 4090
  • Location: Surrey, UK
Re: Tory leadership race.
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2022, 06:55:31 AM »
I think that Mordaunt might well win. The Johnson supporters will all campaign against Sunak. I read an article which said the Johnson could have been like a British Reagan - a charismatic personality, who left the detailed work to competent subordinates. Instead of that we ended up with the likes of the talentless Dorries and Rees Mogg, who were only appointed because they were Johnson acolytes.

Braverman bit the dust. To quote Agatha Christie "and then there were five".

100% agree Jeffrey. The Johnson administration could have worked. For all his faults he reached out to an electorate that traditionally hated Tory. As a figurehead with a competent team behind him, who knows. You are right, worked with Reagan but he was special maybe due to his non-political background ego did not weigh him down. Johnson has turned out to be a very clever fool and once his party and the general public realised this they could not wait to get rid of him, me included. 
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

Offline ultralinear

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 54
  • What? WHAT???
Re: Tory leadership race.
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2022, 07:16:02 AM »
I think what did for Johnson was the perception, which spread until it was almost universal, that he was taking the rest of us for fools.

The Brexit vote was, above all, a punch in the eye for what was perceived as an out-of-touch elite who for years had been shaping policy in their own interests at the expense of the public.  I am not saying that was accurate, but that was the narrative.  The issue of EU membership was almost incidental.  By leading the Leave campaign, Johnson was presenting himself as an anti-establishment figure and the people's champion.  Which swept him into power in 2019 with a thumping majority.

What made Partygate so toxic was not so much the parties themselves but the perception they fed, that once again the people now in power considered themselves not bound by the same rules as the suckers who put them there.  No-one likes to be made a fool of.

Online Irons

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 4090
  • Location: Surrey, UK
Re: Tory leadership race.
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2022, 11:35:15 PM »
I think what did for Johnson was the perception, which spread until it was almost universal, that he was taking the rest of us for fools.

The Brexit vote was, above all, a punch in the eye for what was perceived as an out-of-touch elite who for years had been shaping policy in their own interests at the expense of the public.  I am not saying that was accurate, but that was the narrative.  The issue of EU membership was almost incidental.  By leading the Leave campaign, Johnson was presenting himself as an anti-establishment figure and the people's champion.  Which swept him into power in 2019 with a thumping majority.

What made Partygate so toxic was not so much the parties themselves but the perception they fed, that once again the people now in power considered themselves not bound by the same rules as the suckers who put them there.  No-one likes to be made a fool of.

All true. The one good thing he did not get away with it. Democracy, the system or whatever soon got rid. Without that who knows what would happen as the recent events in Sri Lanka prove.

Mordaunt has spooked the right of the Conservative Party. They have their tanks on her lawn. Lord Frost stuck the knife in yesterday and today's edition of the Daily Mail is full of negative stuff on her.
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

Online vandermolen

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 24717
  • Location: Rotherfield, Sussex, UK
Re: Tory leadership race.
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2022, 05:32:10 AM »
I think what did for Johnson was the perception, which spread until it was almost universal, that he was taking the rest of us for fools.

The Brexit vote was, above all, a punch in the eye for what was perceived as an out-of-touch elite who for years had been shaping policy in their own interests at the expense of the public.  I am not saying that was accurate, but that was the narrative.  The issue of EU membership was almost incidental.  By leading the Leave campaign, Johnson was presenting himself as an anti-establishment figure and the people's champion.  Which swept him into power in 2019 with a thumping majority.

What made Partygate so toxic was not so much the parties themselves but the perception they fed, that once again the people now in power considered themselves not bound by the same rules as the suckers who put them there.  No-one likes to be made a fool of.
As one article pointed out, at first Johnson made the rest of us feel as if we were 'in on the joke', however due to Party-gate etc people were made to feel that the joke was at their expense.

My main objection to Mordaunt is that, if elected, she apparently intends to make the odious Andrea Leadsom Chancellor.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2022, 05:35:20 AM by vandermolen »
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Online Irons

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 4090
  • Location: Surrey, UK
Re: Tory leadership race.
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2022, 01:05:45 PM »


Watched the TV debate this evening. Policy in short supply but I suppose to be expected. My impressions and they are just that are - Badenoch, OK but nerves showed and she stumbled while giving her summing up speech. I expect her to be more assured on the next debate on Sky. Mordaunt As ahead little to gain and a lot to lose. She played it safe and kept her cool at all times. Sunak He is supposed to be the big beast out of the five but didn't come over like that. A nice chap but PM? Truss Did not come over well at all. Promised to cut taxes and spend more. When the others turned on her she grew flustered. Tugenghat Clear winner, assured, impressive and no BS. All five were asked if Johnson was honest, he was the only one with a flat no. Sadly he will not win as coming from too far back but deserves a ministerial role in the next government.
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

Online vandermolen

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 24717
  • Location: Rotherfield, Sussex, UK
Re: Tory leadership race.
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2022, 07:50:21 PM »


Watched the TV debate this evening. Policy in short supply but I suppose to be expected. My impressions and they are just that are - Badenoch, OK but nerves showed and she stumbled while giving her summing up speech. I expect her to be more assured on the next debate on Sky. Mordaunt As ahead little to gain and a lot to lose. She played it safe and kept her cool at all times. Sunak He is supposed to be the big beast out of the five but didn't come over like that. A nice chap but PM? Truss Did not come over well at all. Promised to cut taxes and spend more. When the others turned on her she grew flustered. Tugenghat Clear winner, assured, impressive and no BS. All five were asked if Johnson was honest, he was the only one with a flat no. Sadly he will not win as coming from too far back but deserves a ministerial role in the next government.
Largely agree Lol although only watched about half of it - will watch the rest later. Tugendhat was most impressive but Sunak looked most 'prime ministerial' I thought. Agree about the others. I don't think that Mordaunt stood out at all and Truss obviously flustered at times.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Online vandermolen

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 24717
  • Location: Rotherfield, Sussex, UK
Re: Tory leadership race.
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2022, 10:25:49 PM »
I watched last night's debate and still think that Sunak is by far the strongest candidate. The Tories would be mad not to select him. I thought that Tugendhat was the next most impressive. I find Mordaunt rather bland.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Online Que

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 20802
  • Location: The Hague, Netherlands
Re: Tory leadership race.
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2022, 10:35:42 PM »
These televised public debates made me wonder about the election procedure.
So if I understand correctly, there a several rounds in which Tory MPs pick their favourite. Untill there are two candidates left and Tory party members make the final choice.

Polls indicate party members want a moderate, centrist candidate. Is that what they will be getting?

Offline Iota

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1331
  • Location: UK
Re: Tory leadership race.
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2022, 02:21:23 AM »
These televised public debates made me wonder about the election procedure.
So if I understand correctly, there a several rounds in which Tory MPs pick their favourite. Untill there are two candidates left and Tory party members make the final choice.

Yes.

 
Polls indicate party members want a moderate, centrist candidate. Is that what they will be getting?

Tugendhat is probably the most centrist, and it looks unlikely at the moment they'll be getting him. I do like him, but I wonder if he has quite the Prime Ministerial stuff to lead a party/nation. Sunak and Mordaunt are more centrist than Truss or Badenoch, and going on polling it seems likely, barring twists or turns, they'll be what the Tory Membership do get.

Sunak seems much more open, less robotic in these debates than I've heard him before. I don't know if the image consultants having been working on him, but he's certainly coming across as more likeable. My preference would be for him and Mordaunt to get through.

Offline Iota

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1331
  • Location: UK
Re: Tory leadership race.
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2022, 03:49:50 AM »
Sunak and Truss are refusing to take part in the final debate, so it's been called off. Bit of a surprise, though I imagine Mordaunt is secretly relieved as she had little to gain and much to lose. Wonder if Sunak and Truss' refusal will reflect badly on them.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62206727

Offline ultralinear

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 54
  • What? WHAT???
Re: Tory leadership race.
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2022, 04:54:59 AM »
Frankly I'm surprised any of them ever agreed to the debates, seeing that the first electorate they have to convince are the 350 Conservative MPs - each of whom will already have been canvassed thoroughly - and after that, the 175,000 party members, who will also be canvassed energetically by the final two.  All the debates do is give them an opportunity to make each other - and the party they all represent - look bad in the eyes of the public ahead of the next General Election.  I take Sunak's and Truss's refusal to inflict and sustain further damage as a sign of their confidence that they may be party leader at that point.

Offline Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 19027
Re: Tory leadership race.
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2022, 02:52:26 AM »
Here's Penny Mordaunt's big vision for the UK

https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1549681133104861185
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darĂ¼ber muss man schweigen