Tory leadership race.

[Mandryka]

How about this for a chain of events. Truss wins, then loses the next General Election. Tory party on their knees in desperation plead for the return of Boris. "Hasta la vista, baby".

I don't think it matters who wins the next election. They're all as bad as each other.

[Irons]

I don't think it matters who wins the next election. They're all as bad as each other.

Fair point.

[Irons]

Presenter collapses on live television during leader debate!

https://youtu.be/EvFVY7yqjoA

[The new erato]

They've started doing leadership?

[MusicTurner]

I don't think it matters who wins the next election. They're all as bad as each other.

I think you said the same about Starmer vs Johnson, widening the implied spectre even further. Among other things, it's the lazy way out. But both those two current, conservative candidates surely don't appear particularly socially conscious, when looked at from Scandinavia.

[Mandryka]

I think you said the same about Starmer vs Johnson, widening the implied spectre even further. Among other things, it's the lazy way out. But both those two current, conservative candidates surely don't appear particularly socially conscious, when looked at from Scandinavia.

Starmer ≈ Sunak. Or rather Starmer will adopt Sunak's economic policies in the next election against Truss.

Starmer doesn't appear socially conscious - look at the way he's abandoned RMT, for example. I don't think we could  expect better public services under Starmer than we'll get under Truss.

I think it doesn't matter very much who is in power, Labour or Tory.

[Irons]

I think you said the same about Starmer vs Johnson, widening the implied spectre even further. Among other things, it's the lazy way out. But both those two current, conservative candidates surely don't appear particularly socially conscious, when looked at from Scandinavia.

Nor are the current Labour leadership (socially conscious) so he has a point. A Labour front bench shadow minister was sacked yesterday for joining a picket line. He is also threatened with deselection from his constituency seat for left-leaning views.
Johnson, Rishi and Starmer share a similar political place. Truss I'm not so sure.

[MusicTurner]

Nor are the current Labour leadership (socially conscious) so he has a point. A Labour front bench shadow minister was sacked yesterday for joining a picket line. He is also threatened with deselection from his constituency seat for left-leaning views.
Johnson, Rishi and Starmer share a similar political place. Truss I'm not so sure.

I didn't know the recent Sam Tarry story or the Starmer intervention against shadow ministers appearing in picket lines (apparently the strike there wasn't illegal). The Guardian has an in-depth report and BBC tells about the anger from the unions. Yet, one should focus primarily on the expressed and concrete policies of the parties in relation to the state budget and social inequality, and I think that for example the Labour Manifesto does have more of a social dimension to it than the Conservative one of laissez-faire.

[Mandryka]

I didn't know the recent Sam Tarry story or the Starmer intervention against shadow ministers appearing in picket lines (apparently the strike there wasn't illegal). The Guardian has an in-depth report and BBC tells about the anger from the unions. Yet, one should focus primarily on the expressed and concrete policies of the parties in relation to the state budget and social inequality, and I think that for example the Labour Manifesto does have more of a social dimension to it than the Conservative one of laissez-faire.

That's interesting. What do you think Labour would do that the tories wouldn't?

The very fact that Labour is not supporting the workers in the RMT dispute must give you pause for thought vis-à-vis their social and economic policies. Labour are as monetarist as the Conservatives. Labour discourage popular participation in power, just as the tories do. Both parties are authoritarian and nationalist. Both parties curry favour with big business. Neither party is interested in improving public services, or in halting deregulation.

Of course, Labour are scared that the press will present them as favouring sectorial interests over national interests if they support the unions.

[Irons]

I didn't know the recent Sam Tarry story or the Starmer intervention against shadow ministers appearing in picket lines (apparently the strike there wasn't illegal). The Guardian has an in-depth report and BBC tells about the anger from the unions. Yet, one should focus primarily on the expressed and concrete policies of the parties in relation to the state budget and social inequality, and I think that for example the Labour Manifesto does have more of a social dimension to it than the Conservative one of laissez-faire.

It is all a sham. Labour spread unfounded stories that Tories will sell off the beloved NHS. Johnson, who has no problem being profligate with our money bungs millions in that direction to spike Labour's guns. Oh for the days of Harold Wilson and Margaret Thatcher when you knew what politicians stood for. I'm reaching the stage for the first time in my life I'm not bothered who wins the next general election. 

[MusicTurner]

That's interesting. What do you think Labour would do that the tories wouldn't?

The very fact that Labour is not supporting the workers in the RMT dispute must give you pause for thought vis-à-vis their social and economic policies. Labour are as monetarist as the Conservatives. Labour discourage popular participation in power, just as the tories do. Both parties are authoritarian and nationalist. Both parties curry favour with big business. Neither party is interested in improving public services, or in halting deregulation.

Of course, Labour are scared that the press will present them as favouring sectorial interests over national interests if they support the unions.

The Labour Manifesto has a lot of specified initiatives, for example in the 'Tackle Poverty and Inequality' section. After 12 years of absence in government, they'd have to carry through at least some of it, to produce tangible results.

[vandermolen]

An old school friend of my brother's commented that a Liz Truss premiership (which looks increasingly likely) would be 'like Boris without the jokes'.

[Roasted Swan]

An old school friend of my brother's commented that a Liz Truss premiership (which looks increasingly likely) would be 'like Boris without the jokes'.

or with nice hair or without the intellectual rigour......... (oh no that's not right.......)

[Irons]

An old school friend of my brother's commented that a Liz Truss premiership (which looks increasingly likely) would be 'like Boris without the jokes'.

I'm not so sure. I don't know what to make of her. Raised in a Labour supporting family, joined the Liberal party and voted Remain! Yet the blue-rinse Tories prefer her to dishi Rishi. Maybe a disaster but I don't think she will be Boris mark 2.

[vandermolen]

I'm not so sure. I don't know what to make of her. Raised in a Labour supporting family, joined the Liberal party and voted Remain! Yet the blue-rinse Tories prefer her to dishi Rishi. Maybe a disaster but I don't think she will be Boris mark 2.

I hope not anyway Lol 

[Mandryka]

Yet the blue-rinse Tories prefer her to dishi Rishi.

Well Rishi has brown skin.

[Irons]

Well Rishi has brown skin.

Don't know if you are saying they are racist or you are?

[vandermolen]

Watched the SKY News debate last night. I agreed with the studio audience that Sunak was far more impressive than Truss and looked more like a Prime Minister. However, I suspect that Truss will win for being 'loyal to Boris'. For me that is a reason not to support her.

[Que]

Watched the SKY News debate last night. I agreed with the studio audience that Sunak was far more impressive than Truss and looked more like a Prime Minister. However, I suspect that Truss will win for being 'loyal to Boris'. For me that is a reason not to support her.

The impression I get is that Truss is a total nitwit....and disingenuous. Still, she makes all kinds of promises she cannot keep and that is always a good recipe for political succes. Sunak is a smart guy who understands finance, which seems a good idea given the economic turbulance ahead.  But being a banker who married into a family of bilionaires, I doubt if many of the Conservative upper middle class can feel much of a connection with him. Not particularly a "a man of the people".

Boris' Titanic will keep its course! 

[Irons]

 He who wields the knife in the Tory party never wins the crown. Rishi only had to look back to the Thatcher demise to see the game is up for him. Heseltine a far more capable politician, and unlike Rishi a self-made millionaire, had his heart set to become leader and Prime Minister. He dealt Thatcher a mortal blow, but because of this the party turned their back on him and picked possibly the worst post-war PM, John Major. The game was up for Johnson with the resignation of Sunak as it was up for Thatcher with the resignation of Heseltine. Neither achieved what their actions were planned to achieve. I don't think Sunak has played this at all well.