Author Topic: Beethoven 9th symphony - an alternative instrumental Finale  (Read 157 times)

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Offline gprengel

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I'd like to present to you a special project: In the summer of 1823 Beethoven began concepting the final movement of his 9th symphony and he was struggling whether it should be a choral or an instrumental movement. There are sketches for an instrumental finale with a theme which later in 1825 he would use (in a changed form) for the main theme of the Finale of the a-minor string quartet op. 132 and also for a 2nd theme: http://www.gerdprengel.de/alternFinale_sketches.pdf (sketches/notes)  http://www.gerdprengel.de/alternFinale_sketches.mp3 ((sketches/audio) Recently one question arose in my heart: What might Beethoven have in mind when considering these themes for an alternative instrumental Finale of the 9th? So I began brooding over the sketches, orchestrated the 5th movement of op. 132 and began to write a symphonic Finale. In this I use certain orchestrated passages from the expostion/recapitulation and the Coda of the quartet movement (about 50%). But the first part of expostion/recapitulation and the development is completely new, also a D-Major Adagio in the beginning of the Coda and the conclusion... for me it was a most fascinating task  :   https://youtu.be/CCiRkgZFVaI

Gerd

Offline relm1

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Re: Beethoven 9th symphony - an alternative instrumental Finale
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2022, 03:58:19 PM »
I hear this as an homage to the style of late Beethoven using some of his material.  It is accomplished but maybe not of that era though. 
« Last Edit: July 15, 2022, 04:41:11 AM by relm1 »

Offline krummholz

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Re: Beethoven 9th symphony - an alternative instrumental Finale
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2022, 08:26:45 AM »
I enjoyed this, Gerd, and as always, your work comes out sounding more like Prengel than Beethoven! I sort-of agree with @relm1, in that it's very accomplished but doesn't quite sound like something from Beethoven's era, maybe a little later (Mendelssohn's time perhaps). What I have a hard time hearing it as is a finale to Beethoven's 9th... more of an alternate version of the last movement of Op. 132, in orchestral garb, but with a great deal of new elaboration and development.

Offline gprengel

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Re: Beethoven 9th symphony - an alternative instrumental Finale
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2022, 08:31:29 PM »
Thank you for your comments, but it would help me if you could give me 1 or 2 example passages which you think do not sound like Beethoven.

As I said above, the finale's theme from his string quartet op. 132, 5th mov.,  was originally considered for a finale for the 9th symphony, so other parts of this quartet movement he also might have used for that finale, so besides the themes from the sketch in 0:00 - 0:17 and 0:48ff , the 2nd part of the exposition (1:13 - 2:20)  I took 100% from that quartett, also the long Coda passage 7:00 - 9:16 is 100% from the quartet - is this "Prengel" in your opinion? It is not! Also the development section - isn't there a flavour of the Coriolan overture? Which passages are not "authentic" in your opinion?

 
« Last Edit: July 15, 2022, 08:40:39 PM by gprengel »

Offline krummholz

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Re: Beethoven 9th symphony - an alternative instrumental Finale
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2022, 03:12:31 AM »
Thank you for your comments, but it would help me if you could give me 1 or 2 example passages which you think do not sound like Beethoven.

As I said above, the finale's theme from his string quartet op. 132, 5th mov.,  was originally considered for a finale for the 9th symphony, so other parts of this quartet movement he also might have used for that finale, so besides the themes from the sketch in 0:00 - 0:17 and 0:48ff , the 2nd part of the exposition (1:13 - 2:20)  I took 100% from that quartett, also the long Coda passage 7:00 - 9:16 is 100% from the quartet - is this "Prengel" in your opinion? It is not! Also the development section - isn't there a flavour of the Coriolan overture? Which passages are not "authentic" in your opinion?

Oh, of course there are long passages that come straight from the Op. 132 quartet - but much of the development and some of the subsidiary material sound very much like you. I'll have to listen again before I can point out specific passages, but please don't take this as a criticism! I did not intend it that way. A composer almost inevitably injects his or her own personality into a work that includes any original material or working out. Unless one is simply orchestrating or arranging, I think that's impossible to avoid for a composer of any real talent, as you obviously are!

Peace.