Dvorak's Symphonies

[hornteacher]

The Neumann is rather good if you like a more controlled interpretation.  Another interesting set to look at is this one:

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=220014

Its a very charming reading, especially of the early symphonies.

[Peregrine]

I haven't heard the full cycle, but I generally find Neumann bland and workmanlike, a kapellmeister in the negative sense.

There's an amazing live Dvorak ninth from 1993 (I think?) that would challenge this notion.

[Harry]

I've always found the SQ on the famous cycle by Kubelik on DG to be harsh, thin & edgy, one of the usually reliable DG's less then stellar efforts (and needless to say no longer in my collection).

I must and will disagree with you, its neither harsh, thin or edgy. It sounds detailed, with a excellent front to back image. I  afraid that the stereo you play on is not up to the job.
I have played this set on numerous sets, never gave me the result you are talking about.  But maybe you are thinking about the SQ on DG, instead of the Symphonies? As far as I know Kubelik never ventured into directing the SQ. In that case I must agree, the sound is challenging to say the least.

[Cristofori]

I must and will disagree with you, its neither harsh, thin or edgy. It sounds detailed, with a excellent front to back image. I  afraid that the stereo you play on is not up to the job.
I have played this set on numerous sets, never gave me the result you are talking about.  But maybe you are thinking about the SQ on DG, instead of the Symphonies? As far as I know Kubelik never ventured into directing the SQ. In that case I must agree, the sound is challenging to say the least.

Yes, I was mainly speaking about the SQ, not the performances of the Kubelik cycle, but perhaps there was something missing there as well, I don't know. Maybe I expected too much out of this highly rated set. Regardless, I don't feel that these were some of DG's better efforts on the technical end. Neither was the Dvorak/Kubelik Hungarian Dances on DG.

I've compared those before to the Dvorak/Brahms Hungarian Dances by Karajan (also on DG) and the Kubelik reading seemed washed out and uninspired by comparison. I think that Kubelik is a fine conductor, but it seems to me he got a raw deal with some of his DG recordings.

As far as my audio system goes, that may be true, but all I know is that it seems to like other Dvorak symphonic recordings better (so does my car audio), so I'm giving them what they and I both want.

[The new erato]

Very strange, as i played Kubeliks Hungarian dances (op 46) just the other day, and was revelling in the dynamic, open sound.

[Lethevich]

I can't speak for the symphonies, but the symphonic poems, overtures and dances by Kubelik (currently repackaged on a DG Trio) proved problematic for me as well, sound quality-wise. It is one of those discs that sounds absolutely nasty if played on cheap equipment, and while I rarely get an opportunity to hear music in an ideal situation, the recordings do sound a lot better on well-positioned quality speakers (a more marked difference than with most other recordings). Lower end gear seems to give it a rather harsh, shrill sound and does the dynamic range and depth no justice.

[The new erato]

I can't speak for the symphonies, but the symphonic poems, overtures and dances by Kubelik (currently repackaged on a DG Trio) proved problematic for me as well, sound quality-wise. It is one of those discs that sounds absolutely nasty if played on cheap equipment, and while I rarely get an opportunity to hear music in an ideal situation, the recordings do sound a lot better on well-positioned quality speakers (a more marked difference than with most other recordings). Lower end gear seems to give it a rather harsh, shrill sound and does the dynamic range and depth no justice.

As my speakers cost tons of money, that may be the reason....It's the DG Trio I have.

[Josquin des Prez]

What about Istvan Kertesz? I have his overtures and i find them extremely good. Always meant to buy the rest but never had the chance to.

[Cristofori]

Very strange, as i played Kubeliks Hungarian dances (op 46) just the other day, and was revelling in the dynamic, open sound.

I don't know which editions you have, but I compared the DG Kubelik "The Originals" series reissue CD of the Hungarian dances to the Karajan one reissued on the budget "Eloquence" label on the same audio system and the latter was much more enjoyable both in terms of SQ and performance.

As I said before, I normally think that Kubelik is an excellent conductor but he seems to have had a bit of bad luck for me on the DG label.

[Cristofori]

I can't speak for the symphonies, but the symphonic poems, overtures and dances by Kubelik (currently repackaged on a DG Trio) proved problematic for me as well, sound quality-wise. It is one of those discs that sounds absolutely nasty if played on cheap equipment, and while I rarely get an opportunity to hear music in an ideal situation, the recordings do sound a lot better on well-positioned quality speakers (a more marked difference than with most other recordings). Lower end gear seems to give it a rather harsh, shrill sound and does the dynamic range and depth no justice.

My system is OK. Nothing to brag about, but it handles most things fairly well considering what I paid. I've had better gear in the past and I hope to again in the near future.

I understand about problematic recordings. Some of my most favorite performances have less than ideal SQ or acoustics and are a bit hard to listen to, but if you needed a high-end system to make these type of recordings sound great, than it stands to reason that the ones that sounded better on a lower-end system would sound really, REALLY great!

Sometimes the biggest problem in the audio chain is the recording itself.

[Herman]

I haven't heard the Neumann set either, but I recently picked up the complete cycle cond. by Witold Rowicki with the LPO. These are recently reissued recordings originally released between 1965 & 1972 on the Phillips label, even though this new set is on the Decca label.

That's because Philips has been absorbed in Decca.

I've only heard the 1st symphony so far and was satisfied with both the SQ and the performance. I've always found the SQ on the famous cycle by Kubelik on DG to be harsh, thin & edgy, one of the usually reliable DG's less then stellar efforts (and needless to say no longer in my collection).

This is about Kubelik's Berlin Phil recordings? That may be a 'famous' cycle, but the one with the BRSO is better and has no sound issues.

[Brian]

I can't speak for the symphonies, but the symphonic poems, overtures and dances by Kubelik (currently repackaged on a DG Trio) proved problematic for me as well, sound quality-wise. It is one of those discs that sounds absolutely nasty if played on cheap equipment, and while I rarely get an opportunity to hear music in an ideal situation, the recordings do sound a lot better on well-positioned quality speakers (a more marked difference than with most other recordings). Lower end gear seems to give it a rather harsh, shrill sound and does the dynamic range and depth no justice.

I've had the same experience with the Kubelik DG Trio. It just barely survived my latest collection-culling, despite performances I know to be very good.

[Cristofori]

That's because Philips has been absorbed in Decca.

This is news to me. I know that the big three have been a part of the Universal music group for some time, but until very recently Phillips was still issuing releases (and many still available) under it's own name. I'm not sure what they are trying to accomplish here, as all this will do is serve to confuse those who are looking for recordings they remembered under a different guise.

To a serious LP/CD collector like me, Phillips and London/Decca are very different entities indeed. The only thing being in common is that they were both mainly European imports.

This is about Kubelik's Berlin Phil recordings? That may be a 'famous' cycle, but the one with the BRSO is better and has no sound issues.

Which label produced the ones with the BRSO, and what incarnation are they available today, if at all?

[The new erato]

I'm not sure what they are trying to accomplish here, as all this will do is serve to confuse those who are looking for recordings they remembered under a different guise.

As have been explained on several occasions, Universal simply lost the right to the Philips trademark. For once; no sinister machinations.

[MichaelRabin]

On a direct Kertesz against V Neumann, which set do forum members prefer please?

[Cato]

On a direct Kertesz against V Neumann, which set do forum members prefer please?

Ouch!  For me, this is very difficult!  Kertesz introduced me to the early Dvorak symphonies, as did Neumann!  As a result, they are both somewhat "imprinted" on my brain as being the best! 

I have not heard the CD versions, but the edge might be given to Kertesz on the basis of better sound engineering.

[Daverz]

I have not heard the CD versions, but the edge might be given to Kertesz on the basis of better sound engineering.

I'd give the edge to Neumann for the very good early digital sonics  and the special sound of the Czech Philharmonic.   

I think the Rowicki set is a better recorded representation of the LSO than the Kertesz set. 

I wouldn't want to be without Kertesz or Neumann.  The Neumann is also available as 3 separate boxes: 1-3, 4-6, 7-8; so you don't have to buy the whole thing.  I have to admit that I never listen to 1-3.

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Supraphon/SU37032
http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Supraphon/SU37042
http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Supraphon/SU37052

[Cato]

I'd give the edge to Neumann for the very good early digital sonics  and the special sound of the Czech Philharmonic.   

I think the Rowicki set is a better recorded representation of the LSO than the Kertesz set. 

I wouldn't want to be without Kertesz or Neumann.  The Neumann is also available as 3 separate boxes: 1-3, 4-6, 7-8; so you don't have to buy the whole thing.  I have to admit that I never listen to 1-3.

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Supraphon/SU37032
http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Supraphon/SU37042
http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Supraphon/SU37052

Yes, on Rowicki!  Sarge recommended them some years ago, and I followed his suggestion.  Excellent sound and performances!

Supraphon vinyl records, back in the "bad ol' days," had high hiss problems: glad to read that their CD's have no such drawback.

[MichaelRabin]

Yes indeed Daverz - at that price, Presto is offering a real steal. Go for it?

[MichaelRabin]

Hi there, What you fellow forum members think of this set? Gramophone chose this 2 (Kertesz & Neumann) amongst the 250 top recordings. I heard some samples on Amazon and I think to myself - no great shakes. Classics Today rated them very highly. 10/10 and 10/9. etc. Your opinions please? Thanks!

Forgot to type Kertesz & Neumann.