Dvorak's Symphonies

[Daverz]

Yes indeed Daverz - at that price, Presto is offering a real steal. Go for it?

And the 3 separate boxes are altogether much cheaper than the complete set!

[MichaelRabin]

Presto's p&p are somewhat inflated. But even despite buying the 3 mini box sets, this works out cheaper than the whole box. Still pondering here!

[George]

After living with Rowicki's Dvorak for more than thirty years, and after having heard every other cycle, I can safely say that I'll go to my grave believing there is no better versions of symphonies 1 thru 4 than his. Never been better Othello and Hussite overtures either.

Sarge

I recently decided to get a complete set of these symphonies. I previously only had 5, 7, 8 and 9 with Kertesz, 8, 9 with Walter and 7,8, 9 with Kubelik. I recalled that you liked the Rowicki a lot and recommended it to me years ago. I also read that our Jens and none other than David Hurwitz put it at the top of their lists. Still, I have enjoyed my Kertesz recording a lot so, I thought I'd still do some comparing. Amazon has the two sets at the same (budget) price and since space is very limited for me now, I only want to get one set. I did some comparing on Spotify and I can say I wholeheartedly agree with you! Not only is the playing for Rowicki tighter, the sound is a lot better as well. So I'll be ordering the Rowicki now. Many thanks, and hope all is well with you, Sarge!

[Maestro267]

It's quite bizarre how Dvorák 9 is one of the most popular symphonies of them all, and going backwards they seem to decrease in popularity to the point where 1-4 are hardly ever heard at all. I've never heard 1-3 or 5 ever in my entire history of listening to classical music. I must rectify this at some point, hopefully with a nice boxset.

[Mahlerian]

It's quite bizarre how Dvorák 9 is one of the most popular symphonies of them all, and going backwards they seem to decrease in popularity to the point where 1-4 are hardly ever heard at all. I've never heard 1-3 or 5 ever in my entire history of listening to classical music. I must rectify this at some point, hopefully with a nice boxset.

It's not all that dissimilar from the relative prominence of Wagner's Ring cycle, Tristan, and Meistersinger as opposed to Die Feen or Das Liebesverbot, or the popularity of Mozart's last three symphonies over No. 1, 4, and 5.

[PerfectWagnerite]

It's quite bizarre how Dvorák 9 is one of the most popular symphonies of them all, and going backwards they seem to decrease in popularity to the point where 1-4 are hardly ever heard at all. I've never heard 1-3 or 5 ever in my entire history of listening to classical music. I must rectify this at some point, hopefully with a nice boxset.

Why do you think that is bizarre? 7-9 are superior to the first 6 in every way. 5 and 6 are superior to 1-4, there is no denying that. It might be interesting to hear 1-4 out of curiosity but if Dvorak didn't write 7-9 no one would give a hoot about 1-4.

[Crudblud]

It's quite bizarre how Dvorák 9 is one of the most popular symphonies of them all, and going backwards they seem to decrease in popularity to the point where 1-4 are hardly ever heard at all. I've never heard 1-3 or 5 ever in my entire history of listening to classical music. I must rectify this at some point, hopefully with a nice boxset.

I would say it is partly the prestige of the late work which is popularly afforded to many "great masters" prior to modernism (in which case it seems that early, "revolutionary" works, such as The Rite of Spring, are most highly thought of), and partly the mythology of the piece that does it for this particular Ninth. In addition to the pre-existing "curse of the ninth", Dvořák was, according to some sources (Bernstein in particular seemed to hold this view; furthermore that he failed), looking to impress upon American composers that theirs would be a unique music rather than that of Europe abroad. Regardless of intent, it seems to have been held in high esteem in America for some time; for example: Ives aped Dvořák throughout his first symphony, which was composed in that style to please his teacher Horatio Parker. I think Dvořák's 9th has experienced an oversaturation because it has an unshakeable position within the foundations of American classical music. That isn't to say it's not a fine piece of music, but this kind of phenomenon almost always has more to do with things outside the work than the work itself, I think.

The above might be entirely wrong (I am, after all, going on an understanding of music history cobbled together from random things I have read and largely forgotten over the years) and I am happy to be called an ignorant buffoon for having bothered to type it out.

[Brian]

Why do you think that is bizarre? 7-9 are superior to the first 6 in every way. 5 and 6 are superior to 1-4, there is no denying that. It might be interesting to hear 1-4 out of curiosity but if Dvorak didn't write 7-9 no one would give a hoot about 1-4.

I suspect that 1 & 2 would be trotted out at a rate comparable to Fibich - very, very rarely - while 3 and 4 (especially 3) would be a little more popular and programmed by a handful of advocate conductors, similar to the odd symphonic hit by Goldmark or Berwald. I personally think 3 and the first three movements of 4 to be superior to 5, but that's a matter of taste, perhaps. (My personal preference of Dvorak symphonies is something like 876932451.)

I must add to the praise for Rowicki, who really is the best in all these works! Myung-Whun Chung also is worth seeking out in the symphonies he recorded for DG.

[George]

I must add to the praise for Rowicki, who really is the best in all these works!

I am very glad to hear you hold his set in such high regard, Brian!

[Jo498]

I have heard 1 and 2 (Kertesz) but I do not remember anything about them, so they might be rightfully obscure 5 and especially 6 I find seriously underrated compared to the last three, 3 and 4 are not uninteresting and I remember first listening to 4 when driving south from San Francisco (I had bought a bunch of CDs in the SF Tower records, incl. the Rowicki twofer with 4-6) with a friend in 2004, so there will always be fond recollections of Californian landscapres connected with that piece...

[Sergeant Rock]

So I'll be ordering the Rowicki now.

Great choice, even if I do say so myself 

Sarge 

[George]

Great choice, even if I do say so myself 

Sarge

Of course, if I don't love the set I will hold you personally responsible. 

[aukhawk]

(My personal preference of Dvorak symphonies is something like 876932451.)

6587 49321

No.5 is the symphony that Kertesz really nailed like nobody else.
The Kertesz recordings came in for some comment about the sound quality when they were first released - "in a zinc-tank" one reviewer said - and from what I've heard the digital transfers have only made things worse.  I have the 5th and 6th as needledrops and they sound much better than the CDs.  This slight sound issue does make Rowicki the better all-round recommendation.

[Jo498]

I should probably do an A-B-comparison but to my recollection I preferred the (CD) sound of the Kertesz to Rowicki (of which I have only 4-6) but found both pretty good as far as sound was concerned. (As far as I recall when I bought the Kertesz the complete Rowicki was oop and probably the two twofers I would have needed together more expensive than the Kertesz and both were highly regarded.)

Obviously neither does have a specific "Czech" sound, so if one demands this one had probably best seek out historical recordings with Sejna and Talich or maybe Neumann.

[Maestro267]

Well unlike most of you I'll be willing to give the "obscure" symphonies a good hearing, and as good a chance as they deserve to seep into my memory. Very often all music needs to be appreciated is repeated hearings; not giving up if, after one or two goes, it doesn't reveal all its secrets. I can already tell you now that there is some merit in the early Dvorák symphonies. There HAS TO BE! They were written by the same man as he who wrote the "New World", the Symphonic Variations, the Cello Concerto etc. The seeds were always there from the start, even if they don't reach full germination until the later works, SOME merit is there!

[George]

Well unlike most of you I'll be willing to give the "obscure" symphonies a good hearing, and as good a chance as they deserve to seep into my memory. Very often all music needs to be appreciated is repeated hearings; not giving up if, after one or two goes, it doesn't reveal all its secrets. I can already tell you now that there is some merit in the early Dvorák symphonies. There HAS TO BE! They were written by the same man as he who wrote the "New World", the Symphonic Variations, the Cello Concerto etc. The seeds were always there from the start, even if they don't reach full germination until the later works, SOME merit is there!

In the process of comparing the Kertesz and the Rowicki, I couldn't stop listening to #2. I really liked it. I plan to give all 9 symphonies a good listen when my Rowicki set arrives.

[Sergeant Rock]

6587 49321

No.5 is the symphony that Kertesz really nailed like nobody else.

I think the same about Rowicki's Fifth    But, yeah, the Kertesz is a great cycle, one I'd recommend with Rowicki's. My number 2 anyway.

Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

Well unlike most of you I'll be willing to give the "obscure" symphonies a good hearing

Thank you. I seem to be one of the few here who love all the early symphonies as much as the late ones.

Sarge

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

The Rowicki and Kertesz are my two favourites also. My favourite of his symphonies being the 1st and 5th.........it's hard to work out which of the two I prefer in terms of recordings OR symphonies.

[George]

Glad to see so much love for Rowicki and Kertesz in this thread. I have a twofer of the Kertesz that has his Dvorak 5th, 7th, 8th and 9th symphonies. And I have his whole set on my phone on MP3.