What performances would you witness using a time machine?

Started by Brian, December 04, 2022, 07:10:26 PM

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SimonNZ

Standing with Claude Debussy at the Javanese gamelan exhibit at the Paris Expo of 1899.

Spotted Horses

Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on December 05, 2022, 11:14:44 AMTo say "Such a shame" is not enough...so very sorry to hear that.  Do we know why?  And thank you for the info...I do appreciate it.

PD

Basically the Latin mass was not a thing in the Lutheran church. Only a subset might be included. See, for instance Bach's Missa Breve (or Lutheran masses).
There are simply two kinds of music, good music and the other kind. - Duke Ellington

relm1

Premiere of Beethoven's Ode to Joy would be kind of cool to experience.   Maybe 13th August 1876 would be a great moment to experience as well.  The premiere of Wagner's complete Ring for the first time at Bayreuth. 

I'd also like to be a fly on the wall during the creation of major masterpieces.  Isaac Asimov once said "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka! ' but 'That's funny...'" "That's funny..." is the sound of something catching in your brain.  The same in music.  I doubt composers think "Eureka, I just came up with something they'll talk about for hundreds of years" but rather "I think this idea can work well here". 

SimonNZ

I suspect some people here would be heavily let down by premieres of some Romantic era composers with under rehearsed and clock-punching, apathetic and quite possibly drunk orchestra members. With our ultra high standards of performance and scholarship it could well be like nails on a blackboard.

Another I'd like, though: the performance of Haydn's "Farewell" where the Esterhazy players left one at a time and the Prince got the hint.

LKB

The premiere performance of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony.

The premiere performance of Mahler's Eighth Symphony.
Mit Flügeln, die ich mir errungen...

Jo498

Quote from: Spotted Horses on December 05, 2022, 01:28:08 PMBasically the Latin mass was not a thing in the Lutheran church. Only a subset might be included. See, for instance Bach's Missa Breve (or Lutheran masses).
And it would have been way too long. Even large scale solemn masses were about half as long as the full b minor (although the St Matthew was performed and is an hour longer and there was a sermon in between the two parts, I believe...).
According to wikipedia there is not even evidence that the Lutheran mass of 1733 (Kyrie+Gloria) was ever performed after Bach had sent the parts to Dresden to apply the title of court composer. It or parts of it could have been performed in Leipzig but again no evidence for this.
OTOH there are speculations that the whole mass could have been performed in 1749 or 50 in Vienna at St. Stephan! But this seems quite speculative.
So I guess the only part we can be reasonable sure about performance in Bach's time is the 6 part Sanctus.
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

DaveF

Quote from: Spotted Horses on December 05, 2022, 09:46:23 AM... let Mozart listen to one of Karajan's recordings of the 41st symphony with the BPO and see if Mozart pronounced it the most sublime thing he had ever heard, or an abomination.

That's a whole other thread idea - what would you play to which composers from the past to astonish or appal them?  (I'm sure Haydn would love the Stones :-\ )

Back to this thread - so many good ideas above - premiere of Le Sacre being one of the big ones.  I'd like to be there at the first performance of Berlioz' Grande Messe des Morts, to check out the veracity of the story about Habeneck taking a pinch of snuff at the crucial tempo-change before the Tuba mirum.
"All the world is birthday cake" - George Harrison

Florestan

#27
Quote from: SimonNZ on December 05, 2022, 10:00:45 PMI suspect some people here would be heavily let down by premieres of some Romantic era composers with under rehearsed and clock-punching, apathetic and quite possibly drunk orchestra members.

Classical and Early Romantic might have very well been like that often, but since many in the audience might have also been tipsy, or gradually become so during the concert, it wouldn't have made much of a difference anyway.  ;D

Quote from: SimonNZ on December 05, 2022, 10:00:45 PMWith our ultra high standards of performance and scholarship

The past is a foreign country, they do things differently there.  :)

QuoteAnother I'd like, though: the performance of Haydn's "Farewell" where the Esterhazy players left one at a time and the Prince got the hint.

Very good one, especially since that orchestra was one of the best in Europe.
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Biffo

Quote from: DaveF on December 06, 2022, 01:24:16 AMI'd like to be there at the first performance of Berlioz' Grande Messe des Morts, to check out the veracity of the story about Habeneck taking a pinch of snuff at the crucial tempo-change before the Tuba mirum.

I would love to be at the premiere, it was possibly Berlioz' greatest triumph.

The infamous snuff-taking incident actually happened at the public dress rehearsal. If the performance had been a disaster it would almost certainly   led to the cancellation of the premiere and done irreparable damage to Berlioz' reputation. David Cairns discusses the incident at some depth in his biography of the composer.

pjme

Many very good suggestions - from Morales to Debussy, Bach, Beethoven , Mahler and Stravinsky...Berlioz.

I'd love to have tickets for Les ballets russes, sit through 5 very long hours of Debussy's Saint Sébatien with Ida Rubinstein and listen to the premiere of Coplands organ symphony.
And a visit to Doornik/Tournai cathedral in 1255 or La Sainte Chapelle/Paris in 1248...

DaveF

Quote from: Biffo on December 06, 2022, 02:58:55 AMI would love to be at the premiere, it was possibly Berlioz' greatest triumph.

The infamous snuff-taking incident actually happened at the public dress rehearsal.


David Cairns does say that his placing of the incident at the rehearsal rather than performance is "conjectural" - if it even happened at all.  But snuff or no snuff, as you say, definitely one to be at.

I'm surprised Jeffrey (Vandermolen) hasn't nipped in with this one, so I'm going to: the premiere of VW's Tallis Fantasia in Gloucester Cathedral in 1910.  (And after the interval you got Elgar conducting Gerontius!)
"All the world is birthday cake" - George Harrison

pjme

Berlioz' life is full of wonderful tales & situations I'd like to witness:

"The Blessing of the Daggers/ Bénédiction des poignards, from the Huguenots was given with an imposing effect that surpassed my expectations. I wished Meyerbeer could have heard it. It worked upon me so that my teeth chattered and I shook with nervous ague. The concert had to be stopped while they brought me some punch and a change of clothes, and by making a little chamber of the (12) harps in their linen covers, I was enabled to dress right before the audience without being seen."

Florestan

Quote from: pjme on December 06, 2022, 05:20:00 AMBerlioz' life is full of wonderful tales & situations I'd like to witness:

"The Blessing of the Daggers/ Bénédiction des poignards, from the Huguenots was given with an imposing effect that surpassed my expectations. I wished Meyerbeer could have heard it. It worked upon me so that my teeth chattered and I shook with nervous ague. The concert had to be stopped while they brought me some punch and a change of clothes, and by making a little chamber of the (12) harps in their linen covers, I was enabled to dress right before the audience without being seen."

Well, Peter, I wouldn't regard Berlioz's Memoirs as entirely, or even accurately, factual. He had a marked tendency to histrionics and there are known instances where he embellished, distorted or even invented events in order to present himself in a positive, romantic, heroic light. The above scene, just as lots of others, might or might not have taken place.  ;D
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: Spotted Horses on December 05, 2022, 09:46:23 AMI'd probably go back to 1780's Wiener and attend concerts in which Mozart performed his Piano Concerti. Then I could come back and finally tell you all who is doing it properly.

Maybe I'd bring my iPhone and let Mozart listen to one of Karajan's recordings of the 41st symphony with the BPO and see if Mozart pronounced it the most sublime thing he had ever heard, or an abomination.
;D to both.

Quote from: DaveF on December 06, 2022, 04:48:01 AMI'm surprised Jeffrey (Vandermolen) hasn't nipped in with this one, so I'm going to: the premiere of VW's Tallis Fantasia in Gloucester Cathedral in 1910.  (And after the interval you got Elgar conducting Gerontius!)
You were fast on the draw!  ;)

PD
Pohjolas Daughter

Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: Brian on December 05, 2022, 11:43:07 AMDvorak played viola in the first private performance of Smetana's first string quartet. There's one for the time machine!
That would be wonderful too. :)

PD
Pohjolas Daughter

pjme

Quote from: Florestan on December 06, 2022, 05:28:13 AMWell, Peter, I wouldn't regard Berlioz's Memoirs as entirely, or even accurately, factual. He had a marked tendency to histrionics and there are known instances where he embellished, distorted or even invented events in order to present himself in a positive, romantic, heroic light. The above scene, just as lots of others, might or might not have taken place.  ;D

Well, this anecdote rings true in my ears....Ma, si non e vero.....

Or imagine sitting with Berlioz in the sledge ("an ice cold, closed metal box, filled with cushions, hay, fur blankets...and snow") en route for Saint Petersburg!

Spotted Horses

Quote from: Lisztianwagner on December 05, 2022, 10:13:07 AMA Karajan concert.

If you go back to Karajan's performance of Bruckner 8, WPO, at Carnegie Hall, February 1989, I'll meet you there. :)
There are simply two kinds of music, good music and the other kind. - Duke Ellington

Todd

Quote from: Spotted Horses on December 06, 2022, 07:03:00 AMIf you go back to Karajan's performance of Bruckner 8, WPO, at Carnegie Hall, February 1989, I'll meet you there. :)

Crap, I forgot that one. 
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Florestan

#38
A Schubertiad or two would not be bad, either.

Rachmaninoff and Medtner playing, either their own music or Chopin's / Schumann's the former and Beethoven's the latter.

Fly on the wall at the private, haphazard encounter between Saint-Saens and Alkan in one of the rooms of the Paris Conservatory, in which the latter played the Hammerklavier for the delectation of the former as the one and only member of the audience.

Mompou playing for his friends (he never played in public). Ricardo Vines playing Liszt, Debussy and Ravel.

Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Florestan

Quote from: pjme on December 06, 2022, 06:04:25 AMimagine sitting with Berlioz in the sledge ("an ice cold, closed metal box, filled with cushions, hay, fur blankets...and snow") en route for Saint Petersburg!

In such conditions I'd rather sit with Mussorgsky than Berlioz. Verbose lectures about music, art and romantic love do not warm the blood and stimulate the mind, a bottle of vodka does.  :D
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini