What is Your Political Orientation?

Started by Florestan, January 02, 2023, 12:21:48 PM

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What is Your Political Orientation?

Far Left
2 (10%)
Left
6 (30%)
Center-Left
5 (25%)
Centrist
4 (20%)
Center-Right
2 (10%)
Right
1 (5%)
Far Right
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 19

Florestan

Quote from: SimonNZ on January 02, 2023, 02:42:43 PMhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_identity_card_policies_by_country

If the nation-state is still the basic unit of the internațional politics and politiei, then a național ID card by which John and Jane Doe can lawfully identify as citizens of this or that nation is mandatory.
There is no theory. You have only to listen. Pleasure is the law. — Claude Debussy

SimonNZ

Quote from: Florestan on January 02, 2023, 02:51:29 PMIf the nation-state is still the basic unit of the internațional politics and politiei, then a național ID card by which John and Jane Doe can lawfully identify as citizens of this or that nation is mandatory.

There are other ways of achieving that.

If you scroll down that link you'll see the list of countries with no ID cards includes Australia, Canada, Japan, The United Kingdom...and New Zealand.

Florestan

Quote from: SimonNZ on January 02, 2023, 02:54:53 PMThere are other ways of achieving that.

If you scroll down that link you'll see the list of countries with no ID cards includes Australia, Ca⁷nada, Japan, The United Kingdom...and New7o Zealan7d.


Pray tell, how is one to prove their nationality/citzenship --- absent a valid, lawful card?
There is no theory. You have only to listen. Pleasure is the law. — Claude Debussy

SimonNZ

Quote from: Florestan on January 02, 2023, 03:11:50 PM

Pray tell, how is one to prove their nationality/citzenship --- absent a valid, lawful card?


Passport and/or drivers license would be the everyday usual.

KevinP

Can I just point out that the poll has no option for 'far left' but the poll itself is titled 'far left'?

As such, I don't really want to participate in it--not necessarily because I'm far left because a simple mistake has crept in.

Todd

Quote from: Florestan on January 02, 2023, 02:25:04 PMThen there should never be any USA citizenship requiremenr for anything,  because that which  should never be should simply not exist.

All people born in the US are citizens.  There is also a federally prescribed naturalization process.  It's all well established.


Quote from: Florestan on January 02, 2023, 02:51:29 PMIf the nation-state is still the basic unit of the internațional politics and politiei, then a național ID card by which John and Jane Doe can lawfully identify as citizens of this or that nation is mandatory.

This is afactual.  The US has never had any such ID, nor will it.  There are plenty of alternatives.  Like those that exist now.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Florestan

Quote from: Todd on January 02, 2023, 03:39:41 PMAll people born in the US are citizens.

Okay! What is the lawful, incontrovertible proof that one was born in the USA?
There is no theory. You have only to listen. Pleasure is the law. — Claude Debussy

Todd

Quote from: Florestan on January 02, 2023, 03:47:01 PMOkay! What is the lawful, incontrovertible proof that one was born in the USA?

Birth certificate.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Dry Brett Kavanaugh

Quote from: KevinP on January 02, 2023, 03:24:15 PMCan I just point out that the poll has no option for 'far left' but the poll itself is titled 'far left'?

As such, I don't really want to participate in it--not necessarily because I'm far left because a simple mistake has crept in.

I don't know your nationality, but the "far left" in the USA is around center or center-left in other democracies.

As other members already know, some issues like Free-trade agreement, Israel, etc. have moved through ideological continuum/parties as the racial issue did in the 1950-60s.

KevinP

Quote from: Florestan on January 02, 2023, 03:37:26 PMBlimey, when I started the poll it went from Far Left to the Far Right and everything in between correctly. Why it doesn't show correctly it's beyond me.

As pointed out, the mistake is that you put 'far left' in the poll's title.

Jo498

#30
I am not able to vote in that poll. Closest would probably be what was center to center left in Western Europe in the 1980s but more socially+culturally conservative (although de facto the 1980s German social democrats were conservative wrt common sense values that have been toppled in the last 25 years). This position has vanished in real political parties in Germany today.
Roughly, I am on the right of the rightmost current (established) party in some issues ("family values", "Western" culture, national sovereignty, border control/migration, anti-globalism, most of which was mainstream/common sense only 30 years ago but gets branded "far right" or even illegal today) but close to the leftmost current established party in others (economic anti-globalism, regulated labor market, restricting power of banksters etc., public control of key infrastructure etc.). I also support in principle some "green" issues but despise the current Green party that (apart from being totally mad in other issues and lately also shown to be belligerent hypocrites) cuts down forests for wind power.
Almost everyone has become stark mad in the last few years, for me indicators of an utterly corrupt and dysfunctional political system (basically captured by political parties leading to people at the top who are usually best in ruthless psychopathy or "brownnosing"). As the apparent "good times" of the 1970s-90s led to the current mess, I bid farewell to the dream of somehow getting back. This was at best a "metastable" situation that quickly deteriorated once some conditions changed.
Of course, the radical transformations necessary are politically impossible. It is probably only going to get worse as the reactions to the worst situations of the last decades (migration, Covid, Ukraine) were dysfunctional and have led to more corruption and proto-totalitarian measures with the media not being critical at all and most people buying their mendacious narratives.
Therefore I have small hope that things getting worse will lead to waking up. We have had "fun riots" with dozens of injured, burnt out cars, including ambulances and buses! in Berlin and other many major cities at the turn of the year and the mainstream media do acrobatics to avoid stating clearly that >90% (probably more like 99%) of the rioters were migrants or their children/grandchildren (and not Spaniards or Japanese but from the Balkan and Near East). And when they have to state it, they blame "toxic masculinity", although for some weird reasons the far less "enlightened" men never burnt down police cars with fireworks on New Years Eve in the 1980s and 90s. So as the US might become more like Brazil, Germany will become like the US in some respects with "ghettoes" with ethnic gang rule/warfare etc.
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

Florestan

Quote from: KevinP on January 02, 2023, 05:45:37 PMAs pointed out, the mistake is that you put 'far left' in the poll's title.

You're right. I corrected it and reset the poll.
There is no theory. You have only to listen. Pleasure is the law. — Claude Debussy

Florestan

#32
Quote from: Todd on January 02, 2023, 03:58:36 PMBirth certificate.

Fair enough.

But then again, how about US citizens not born in the USA? How can they prove their citizenship?
There is no theory. You have only to listen. Pleasure is the law. — Claude Debussy

Florestan

Quote from: SimonNZ on January 02, 2023, 03:20:51 PMPassport and/or drivers license would be the everyday usual.

In Romania you cannot get/renew a passport or a driver license if you do not have a valid ID card.  :)
There is no theory. You have only to listen. Pleasure is the law. — Claude Debussy

Daverz

Quote from: Todd on January 02, 2023, 03:58:36 PMThis is afactual.  The US has never had any such ID, nor will it.  There are plenty of alternatives.  Like those that exist now.

Though I would point out that

"Beginning May 7, 2025, if you plan to use your state-issued ID or license to fly within the U.S., make sure it is REAL ID compliant."

https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/identification

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/driver-licenses-identification-cards/real-id/real-id-checklist/

krummholz

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 02, 2023, 02:08:34 PMOne needs to register to vote in one's state of residence. In Massachusetts, QED, one need not register with either major party to vote in a general election. As to primaries, the rule varies from state to state, but in Mass. since I am Unaffiliated, I cannot vote in a primary election.

As you say, that varies between states. I am also "Unaffiliated" (I call myself an Independent), and I can and have voted in both Democratic and Republican primaries - not in the same election though, of course. In Vermont, regardless of one's political affiliation or lack thereof, one can choose to vote in either primary.

I chose "Centrist" - I am fiscally conservative, socially liberal on some issues and more libertarian-leaning on others.

Jo498

Why is a federal ID seen as problematic but not a state ID/driver's license?

Despite recent anarchy in some other things, Germany holds up to their "anal" tradition. (Cf. Brecht's quip that the ID or passport is the more important part of a man, as it doesn't arise in such an accidental way as a man)
Not only are you required to have an ID (adding insult to injury you have to pay for it every 10 years or so when it has to be renewed!) but you are also required on pain of a fine to register at your place of residence after a move (and this new place of residence will be entered in your ID). I am not sure about the techicalities but it is some kind of misdemeanour if you move and don't register within a few weeks or so afterwards!

Therefore we struggle to even understand the framework of voter registration and the debate over voter IDs in the US. Because of the general registration there is nothing additional required and one will get a notice by mail before an election from the local administration with a standard polling place and also options for voting by mail etc. So one then brings that notice and an ID (although they rarely check the ID if you got that notice and they have you in their list) and will be admitted to the voting booth.
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

Todd

Quote from: Florestan on January 03, 2023, 12:23:23 AMBut then again, how about US citizens not born in the USA? How can they prove their citizenship?

The feds issue a certificate.  You've heard of Google, yes? 


Quote from: Daverz on January 03, 2023, 03:43:06 AMThough I would point out that

"Beginning May 7, 2025, if you plan to use your state-issued ID or license to fly within the U.S., make sure it is REAL ID compliant."

REAL ID makes me feel safe.


Quote from: Jo498 on January 03, 2023, 04:27:17 AMWhy is a federal ID seen as problematic but not a state ID/driver's license?

Enumerated powers.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Brian

re: partisan political primaries
Quote from: Florestan on January 02, 2023, 01:27:47 PMIsn't this the surest way to the factionalism that the FF supposedly abhorred?

Quite possibly, yes. There are reform movements in some states to replace the party primaries with "top two" primaries, where the top two candidates from any party advance to the general election. The idea would be that if you find yourself in a small minority of the population, you would vote, not necessarily for the person who shares all your views, but for the least extreme of the major candidates. In California, for example, the "top two" might be a far left person and a less far left person who had been strategically backed by centrists.

In Texas, where I live, the system is chaotic and heavily skewered toward factionalism, but there is one interesting feature: in the partisan primary, you can choose whichever political party you want. There is no "registering." Your party affiliation only lasts for that primary season. In fact, when you walk in the voting station, they simply ask which party you want to vote on. In 2016, for example, I voted Republican in the primary to vote against Trump, even though I had no intention of voting for a Republican in the general election.

Todd

Quote from: Jo498 on January 02, 2023, 11:45:44 PMAlmost everyone has become stark mad in the last few years

I am not convinced of this.  I see a pretty stark difference between real life and online behavior and corporate media representations of life.  It has always been thus.  I will say that in some settings, people have become less patient and more abrasive in public, elderly people (especially boomers) more than anyone else.  This started in the early phases of the pandemic.  This may be a local thing.


Quote from: Jo498 on January 02, 2023, 11:45:44 PMSo as the US might become more like Brazil

The transformation has been underway for a while, hence the appeal of populists and mercantilism in both parties in the US.  Globalization itself is now being pronounced dead: The Gospel of Deglobalization: What's the Cost of a Fractured World Economy?  Even Janet Yellen uses the phrase "friend shoring".
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya