Beethoven is no Beethoven

[Herman]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/22/health/beethoven-death-dna-hair.html

DNA research appears to show that LvB's dad was illegitimate, and so, strictly speaking, no Van Beethoven.

"Maarten Larmuseau, a co-author of the new study who is a professor of genetic genealogy at the University of Leuven in Belgium, suspects that Ludwig van Beethoven's father was born to the composer's grandmother with a man other than his grandfather. There are no baptismal records for Beethoven's father, and his grandmother was known to have been an alcoholic. Beethoven's grandfather and father had a difficult relationship. These factors, Dr. Lamarseau said, are possible signs of an extramarital child."

So if research into this matter continues, pretty soon we'll have to change the names and we'll be talking about Fischer's or Muller's Ninth Symphony etc.

[Karl Henning]

DNA research appears to show that LvB's dad was illegitimate, and so, strictly speaking, no Van Beethoven.

The artist formerly known as Beethoven.

[Brian]

I saw the new thread title and thought, "Oh god, Rob Newman is back to test the new moderators."   

[Brian]

By the way, this full article was totally fascinating from start to finish. It is upsetting to imagine the poor man living his whole life with a disease from childbirth, and rapidly going deaf, and suffering regular bouts of indigestion and diarrhea, and finally dying of a fourth condition.

Also, when you think about it, kind of amazing that 200 years later we have five verifiable samples of his DNA.

[Spotted Horses]

Statistics indicate that some substantial fraction of people have father other than the one on the birth certificate (5%?, I seem to remember reading an article somewhere long ago). If we changed names based on DNA tests virtually everyone on earth would have a new name.

[prémont]

No need to panic, because this illegitimate grandfather may have been the decisive genetic reason for Ludvig van becoming the great composer he became.

[Karl Henning]

No need to panic, because this illegitimate grandfather may have been the decisive genetic reason for Ludvig van becoming the great composer he became.

There's that, too, so we have the angle of artistic legitimacy

[Florestan]

I saw the new thread title and thought, "Oh god, Rob Newman is back [...]"   

My thoughts exactly.

Now, even if that were true, the baptismal record of Ludwig states his surname as van Beethoven. So technically he is Beethoven alright.

[Florestan]

kind of amazing that 200 years later we have five verifiable samples of his DNA.

I can't read the article because it's behind a paywall. What I'd like to know is, okay, we might have Ludwig's verifiable DNA samples, but how come we have his father's verifiable DNA sample so that the two can be compared?

[Spotted Horses]

I can't read the article because it's behind a paywall. What I'd like to know is, okay, we might have Ludwig's verifiable DNA samples, but how come we have his father's verifiable DNA sample so that the two can be compared?

They collected various hair samples claimed to be from Beethoven and several of them they had identical DNA, suggesting they really were from Beethoven. They collected DNA from a family in Belgium with name van Beethoven and genealogical record dating back to Beethoven's 16th century ancestor. There was no match. There was an infidelity and they speculate it was Beethoven's grandmother, based on historical evidence.

[Wanderer]

Quoting a Greek article on the study: "The study suggests that this event (infidelity) occurred in the period between the conception of his ancestor Hendrick van Beethoven in about 1572 in Belgium and the conception of Ludwig van Beethoven seven generations later in 1770 in Bonn. Although the paternity of Beethoven's father had earlier been doubted due to the absence of a baptismal record, researchers have been unable to determine the generation in which this event took place."

[Todd]

I wonder if Anton Reicha's parental lineage will ever garner as much research money and time, and as many column inches, as Beethoven's.

[Wanderer]

I can't read the article because it's behind a paywall. What I'd like to know is, okay, we might have Ludwig's verifiable DNA samples, but how come we have his father's verifiable DNA sample so that the two can be compared?

Quoting the Greek article again:

""We cannot say for sure what killed Beethoven," emphasizes Johann Krauss, from the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology. "We can now at least confirm the presence of hereditary risk (for cirrhosis) and hepatitis B virus infection. We can also rule out many other less plausible genetic causes."

Finally, the team analyzed the genomes of five living relatives of the composer in Belgium, who share the same last name and share, based on genealogical records, a common ancestor with Beethoven's paternal line. However, they could not find a connection between them.

Some of them shared a paternal ancestor with Beethoven in the late 1500s and early 1600s, based on genealogical studies, but did not match the Y chromosome found in the original hair samples. The team concluded that this was likely the result of at least one extramarital event over the generations."

[Florestan]

They collected various hair samples claimed to be from Beethoven and several of them they had identical DNA, suggesting they really were from Beethoven. They collected DNA from a family in Belgium with name van Beethoven and genealogical record dating back to Beethoven's 16th century ancestor. There was no match. There was an infidelity and they speculate it was Beethoven's grandmother, based on historical evidence.

Thanks. Next question is, how did they know that those hair samples were really from Beethoven himself? The mismatch could very well be interpreted the other way around: they don't match, ergo they were not Beethoven's.

It's all a matter of pure speculation, really. And it doesn't even matter one iota. Who really cares about who was Beethoven's real grandfather, anyway? (apart from scientists trying to attract funding for their research, that is...)

[Florestan]

Quoting the Greek article again:

""We cannot say for sure what killed Beethoven," emphasizes Johann Krauss, from the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology. "We can now at least confirm the presence of hereditary risk (for cirrhosis) and hepatitis B virus infection. We can also rule out many other less plausible genetic causes."

Finally, the team analyzed the genomes of five living relatives of the composer in Belgium, who share the same last name and share, based on genealogical records, a common ancestor with Beethoven's paternal line. However, they could not find a connection between them.

Some of them shared a paternal ancestor with Beethoven in the late 1500s and early 1600s, based on genealogical studies, but did not match the Y chromosome found in the original hair samples. The team concluded that this was likely the result of at least one extramarital event over the generations."

Thanks. See my comment above.

[Brahmsian]

Was hoping it was a match with:

[Wanderer]

Thanks. Next question is, how did they know that those hair samples were really from Beethoven himself? The mismatch could very well be interpreted the other way around: they don't match, ergo they were not Beethoven's.

It's all a matter of pure speculation, really. And it doesn't even matter one iota. Who really cares about who was Beethoven's real grandfather, anyway? (apart from scientists trying to attract funding for their research, that is...)

Quoting the Greek article again:

"The great composer's health and cause of death have been discussed at length, but without genetic research. For the current research, published in the journal Current Biology, five tufts of hair were studied, all from the last seven years of Beethoven's life, which the researchers say are "almost certainly authentic".

In total, the team performed authentication tests on eight hair samples obtained from public and private collections in Europe and the US. Through these tests the researchers discovered that at least two of the tufts did not come from Beethoven, including a famous tuft once believed to have been cut from the deceased composer's head by 15-year-old musician Ferdinand Hiller. Previous analyzes of the 'Hiller' tuft had supported the hypothesis that Beethoven had been poisoned by lead, but it has now been determined that the tuft belonged to a woman.

Five samples were identified as authentic. Of these, the 'Stumpff' tuft, from the collection of Kevin Brown, a member of the American Beethoven Society, emerged as the best-preserved specimen with the strongest link between DNA extracted from this tuft and people living in present-day North Rhine-Westphalia , whence Beethoven's well-known German ancestry."

[Florestan]

Was hoping it was a match with:

Nah! Haydn himself is no Haydn. And Mozart is actually Lucchesi. 

[Spotted Horses]

Thanks. Next question is, how did they know that those hair samples were really from Beethoven himself? The mismatch could very well be interpreted the other way around: they don't match, ergo they were not Beethoven's.

It's all a matter of pure speculation, really. And it doesn't even matter one iota. Who really cares about who was Beethoven's real grandfather, anyway? (apart from scientists trying to attract funding for their research, that is...)

They acquired six locks of hair with reliable, independent provenance of being from Beethoven. (Upon his death many people got a lock of his hair as a souvenir.) Of the six, five were identical DNA matches to each other. That strikes me as strong evidence that the provenance of the five matching samples is valid and traces back to Beethoven.

Their findings are interesting to me, not so much because of the infidelity, but because of the information about Beethoven's life. A older study based on another hair sample had high lead levels and led to speculation that lead poisoning associated with excess wine consumption led to Beethoven's deafness and final illness. That sample was also subject to DNA analysis and it proved to be from a woman. The true Beethoven samples did not have excess lead, and had genetic markers for susceptibility to liver disease and for infection with Hepatitis B. It suggests Beethoven died of liver failure, rather than alcoholism. I would think anyone interested enough to read a biography of Beethoven would find this of interest.

[Florestan]

Quoting the Greek article again:

"The great composer's health and cause of death have been discussed at length, but without genetic research. For the current research, published in the journal Current Biology, five tufts of hair were studied, all from the last seven years of Beethoven's life, which the researchers say are "almost certainly authentic".

Gotta love this formulation: almost certainly. 

Five samples were identified as authentic. Of these, the 'Stumpff' tuft, from the collection of Kevin Brown, a member of the American Beethoven Society, emerged as the best-preserved specimen with the strongest link between DNA extracted from this tuft and people living in present-day North Rhine-Westphalia, whence Beethoven's well-known German ancestry."

All this reminds me of a joke. In St. Peter's Cathedral, the guide presents the visitors a small skull: "Here we have the skull of St. John the Baptist.". One visitor remarks: "I very much doubt it, this is the skull of a child." The guide retorts: "Precisely, it's the skull from the time St. John the Baptist was seven years old."