Sexiness in "Classical" Music

[Karl Henning]

If we don't go for passive voice, the alternative is that it's Yuja Wang who is doing the exploiting.

Just so. Not solely, perhaps, but to some degree it's her choice/participation.

[Karl Henning]

Marketing sells, even though the vast majority of people would always deny that the reason they were attracted to something was the marketing. I mean, this is kind of the point of MOST good marketing. Not to overtly get you to do something, but to covertly get you to believe that you were always going to do it anyway. Or to tap into the things you already find appealing.

I doubt anyone with a decent knowledge of classical buys something just because of the cover. But there are 2 readily observable points: first, that the intent is to tilt things a little rather than be the sole reason. Second, that people with a decent knowledge of classical music aren't a terribly large chunk of the market, even for classical music.

I twig all that. I am not obliged to admire the artist who markets themselves in this way, let alone slaver over them.

[relm1]

Is being a sexy and attractive pianist / violinist / singer / whatever a liability? Is marketing a sexy and attractive whatever on the art cover of a CD anathema? Is sexuality and eroticism completely alien to the enjoyment of music in the here and now?

Of course, beauty and attractiveness are an asset. 

[Madiel]

I twig all that. I am not obliged to admire the artist who markets themselves in this way, let alone slaver over them.

No. But you can also say, as was said earlier in this thread, that a female artist is ALSO talented.

Which is highly likely to be true. But if choosing between multiple talented artists, being the one with an attractive cover photo doesn't hurt.

[Madiel]

Is this perhaps the stupidest question ever?  Of course, beauty and attractiveness are an asset. 

You seem to think it's a stupid question, and yet much of the forum seems to be claiming to disagree with you about the answer.

[Spotted Horses]

I can't really relate to the question as posed.

I consume classical music 100% in audio recordings, so how would I even know if the performer is "sexy?"

On the other hand, classical musicians are performers and their stage presence is part of the presentation of the music. Stage presence, whether it relates to physical characteristics, charisma, etc, is part of a performance. Such things will influence the effectiveness of a performer in a live performance. I assume it is less of an influence in classical music than in some other forms of music where the performers persona is more important than the music itself.

[SimonNZ]

re: "sex sells":

If you look through the list of, say, the top 100 best selling rock albums you'll see there's almost no examples.

I'd be interested in seeing a classical list that isn't made up of compilations, highlights and crossovers to assess a similar list - but I'd put my money on there being little proof of the theory again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums

[Madiel]

re: "sex sells":

If you look through the list of, say, the top 100 best selling rock albums you'll see there's almost no examples.

I'd be interested in seeing a classical list that isn't made up of compilations, highlights and crossovers to assess a similar list - but I'd put my money on there being little proof of the theory again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums

So wait, right near the top of that list are a youthful Michael Jackson, Whitney Houston from a blatantly romantic movie and Shania Twain... and you see almost no examples?

[SimonNZ]

So wait, right near the top of that list are a youthful Michael Jackson, Whitney Houston and Shania Twain... and you see almost no examples?

Perhaps I misunderstood. Those are to me just youthful people looking youthful. I thought this was about the more cynical marketing and obvious appeals to titillation.

[Madiel]

Perhaps I misunderstood. Those are to me just youthful people looking youthful. I thought this was about the more cynical marketing and obvious appeals to titillation.

I think perhaps you also need to go look at some Shania Twain video clips. And consider that her album was called Come On Over, look at the covers for the different editions and remember that one of the hit songs was Man! I Feel Like A Woman!

None of the classical music covers that prompted this conversation are blatant and tasteless. And as for obviousness, I've already made the point that the best marketing is rarely obvious. It's usually far more effective to give people hints of things. People like hints.

[SimonNZ]

Wrt classical I thought we were talking here more about Yuja Wang's legs than, say, Helene Grumaud's eyes.

[Madiel]

What I wish we were talking about was some nice man's arms, but our society treats sleeveless men and women rather differently.

[Brian]

Another lesson here is that some people are eager to interpret more or less any imagery of a human being at all as being sexual or sexualized, if they happen to find that person attractive. (Or, to put it another way, they mistake their own overactive sex interest for other people's.)

[Madiel]

Another lesson here is that some people are determined to declare that marketing doesn't work on them.

There have been plenty of times on this forum when people other than Andrei have made some little remark about a female musician's appearance. He's just the one prepared to admit it. It's not hard for me to notice when it's going on precisely because I'm inherently not involved.

[Jo498]

I struggle to think of a single famous female classical soloist of the last ca. 50 years (and I make this temporal restriction only for lack of familiarity with earlier times) I would not think of as above average in attractivity (maybe Sabine Meyer who looks fairly average), and many are way above. Sure, there is quite a bit possible with makeup, lighting etc.
But I think it is hard to deny that this is relevant for international solo careers and as I said only to be expected in show business in an age of visual mass media. It seems hypocritical to find it "unfair" or be bothered by it.
It's not as obvious for the males but here the handsome ones are also staged/photographed for effect; there was "Tzimon Barto" already in the 1980s, or look at young Pogorelich on DG covers at the time.

Is this "harmless"? probably not always, but many things in professional showbiz are not harmless but highlighting physical attractiveness in photos isn't abuse either. I am pretty certain that there are worse abuses and pressures of children and teenagers in the CM world than making 20 year olds look good on cover photos.

[Florestan]

Wrt classical I thought we were talking here more about Yuja Wang's legs than, say, Helene Grumaud's eyes.

Ha ha, good point. 

[Florestan]

In your life perhaps, but I've met many women who perform or listen to classical music. 

Sure, but are they active members of any classical music forum?

[pjme]

Sure, but are they active members of any classical music forum?

No, they follow their prefered barihunks

Partial translation :

"The phenomenon of barihunk has been widely reported since 2007 on a special website: Barihunks – The Sexiest Baritone Hunks from Opera. Judging by the reactions, the site is well visited. And not only by gay men, but by the majority of the enthusiastic opera audience.

No more traditional singer bellies: an average opera singer nowadays spends half of his time jogging and in fitness centers. They have to, because more and more often they go on stage, whether or not completely naked. A dressed-up barihunk has become a rarity, prompting one reviewer to make a remarkable statement about Teddy Tahu Rhodes recently: "He can sing, even with a shirt on."     

Or: Classic FM
Or:
Huffington post

[Madiel]

It even comes with separate marks out of 10 for looks and singing. 

[CRCulver]

What are the odds that the most talented performers are also sexually attractive?

With classical music being global and conservatories producing more performers then there is demand for in a niche and declining marketplace, there is such a glut of talented performers now. Promoters and labels have to choose among a lot of more or less equally talented people, and sexual attractiveness (or some other quality useful for marketing) is one criterion for doing so.