Sir William Walton

Started by tjguitar, April 16, 2007, 09:15:49 AM

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vandermolen

#520
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 15, 2020, 04:10:58 AM
I listened the (premier) recording ï¼”times so far. The performance is phenomenal, penetrating and dynamic. All the movements were greatly done and remarkably animated- especially the final movement is astonishing (personally, my favorite interpretation ever). This is the the LSO in the 30s- I can't believe! I am in awe. They are impeccable- they ascend and fly like an eagle. Were the performance recorded in today's recording, it would have been one of the most vigorous and most remarkable recordings (or just "the" most remarkable recording). I will keep listening to this recording. Thank you for the recommendation.

(Is the Boult rendition/approach a little similar to the Harty/LSO ?)

So glad you enjoyed the Harty DBK!  :) It really is quite something. The sound quality is better on the CD and LP release.

The Boult is not so 'edge-of-your-seat' as the Harty but still a very fine performance.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Dry Brett Kavanaugh

#521
Jeffrey, thank you for your consideration on the Karabits set. Take your time please.

Roasted Swan, I agree and I think the Sinfonia Gran Canaria is a fine orchestra. (Almost) all of their ASV/Alto recordings are very good. My fav are below. They are conducted by A. Leaper.

Dry Brett Kavanaugh

Quote from: vandermolen on July 15, 2020, 04:54:41 AM

The Boult is not so 'edge-of-your-seat' as the Harty but still a very fine performance.

Agree.

Roasted Swan

Quote from: vandermolen on July 14, 2020, 08:02:24 AM
I forgot Sargent  :o
You have to hear the Harty DBK. It's very old but riveting. He conducted the first performance. CD/LP covers below:



And here it is! Recorded in a warehouse in 1935:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eJbFXTt_zMI
The sound quality was better on the CD and LP than it is here but you get some idea of the electrifying performance.
The climax of the first movement from about 9:30 gives you some idea of what it is like.

Following that YouTube link (very good too!) provided another performance -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWe6VWRXo9Q

Carlos Kalmar with the Spanish RSO - very committed exciting performance - well worth a watch!

vandermolen

Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 15, 2020, 05:07:09 AM
Following that YouTube link (very good too!) provided another performance -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWe6VWRXo9Q

Carlos Kalmar with the Spanish RSO - very committed exciting performance - well worth a watch!

What a fine performance and great to see it being performed. Pity that there weren't more people there. Nice to see Walton being performed so well in Spain.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

vandermolen

#525
Just listened to this (1st Symphony) - an excellent modern performance with a great sense or urgency and tension. I especially liked the spacing out of the final chords. You get 'Siesta' thrown in as a nice interlude between the symphonies. Great cover art completes a very attractive disc. I can't imagine anyone being disappointed with this release:

PS I just listened to the version conducted by Kiriil Karabits - this is also a strong version, although I think I could hear some humming from Maestro Karabits during the performance. On balance I prefer the Brabbins which also includes an additional work. Karabits is, however, better in Symphony No.2 I think. Both CDs are v enjoyable.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Dry Brett Kavanaugh

#526
Quote from: vandermolen on July 14, 2020, 10:39:51 PM
I thought that it didn't start off very promisingly but gained cumulative power until, by the end, I was totally gripped by it. I think that the last movement is one of the most impressive versions I have heard.

The description is SO intriguing that I ordered both the discs. Thank you for the reviews on the Brabbins and Karabits. While I am still waiting for the Brabbins set I ordered, I thought that the Karabits 1 was vibrant and exceptional performance comparable to the Boult 1.

I read a historical explanation of the Symphony 1 on Wikipedia. It says that after the Harty's premier recording (1935), the Philharmonia set conducted by Walton (1953) was the second recording followed by the Boult's third (1958), the Previn's fourth (1967) and the Sargent's fifth (same year, 1967) recordings. I wonder why there was a near-decade gap between the Boult and the Previn. After the Previn/Sargent, there was a decade vacuum again. On the list, I still don't know the recordings of Handley (2 recordings), Gibson and Slatkin. I am sure the list is missing several minor recordings, including those I just ordered.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._1_(Walton)

Dry Brett Kavanaugh

Solid performance!

Roasted Swan, the Henry V/Judd arrived yesterday. While the Henry V suite is great, the violin concerto is colorful and successfully expressive. Plus, the Spitfire and the Capriccio, my favorite compositions, fire and swing. I don't know how the orchestra was found/chosen, but it is great. The recording sound is superb too. This is a great disc. It's ridiculous (almost) nobody talks about this recording.


Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 15, 2020, 05:07:09 AM
Following that YouTube link (very good too!) provided another performance -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWe6VWRXo9Q

Carlos Kalmar with the Spanish RSO - very committed exciting performance - well worth a watch!

relm1

Quote from: vandermolen on July 14, 2020, 06:55:51 AM
One of the few things we disagree on but I must give it another listen to.

Yes, please give another listen and tell me if you still disagree.  Has the slow movement ever been better?  By the way, I'm talking about the one from 60's, I think they rerecorded it in the 80's and I don't like that one as much.

vandermolen

Quote from: relm1 on July 16, 2020, 06:05:16 AM
Yes, please give another listen and tell me if you still disagree.  Has the slow movement ever been better?  By the way, I'm talking about the one from 60's, I think they rerecorded it in the 80's and I don't like that one as much.
Will do. Yes, I know the classic performance is with the LSO and the later one, which I prefer, is with the RPO. I have CDs of them both. To be honest I never liked the Previn LSO version from the time of its LP release but I'm happy to listen to it again. It's certainly a fine performance but I preferred other versions.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Mirror Image

Quote from: relm1 on July 16, 2020, 06:05:16 AM
Yes, please give another listen and tell me if you still disagree.  Has the slow movement ever been better?  By the way, I'm talking about the one from 60's, I think they rerecorded it in the 80's and I don't like that one as much.

Honestly, I think the slow movement is the weakest movement from the symphony.

vandermolen

Quote from: Mirror Image on July 16, 2020, 07:21:18 AM
Honestly, I think the slow movement is the weakest movement from the symphony.
Interesting John. Much as I love that symphony I don't think that any of the other movements are as good as the first movement which is, to me, like a symphony in itself. Often there are comments that the last movement, composed after a gap, is not as good as the other movements but I disagree and think that it's a great conclusion to the work. Actually I find the slow movement of Symphony No.2 more affecting than the slow movement of the First Symphony, certainly it is my favourite movement of Symphony No.2. Still, Symphony No.1 remains one of my favourite symphonies of all time.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Roasted Swan

Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 16, 2020, 03:50:42 AM
The description is SO intriguing that I ordered both the discs. Thank you for the reviews on the Brabbins and Karabits. While I am still waiting for the Brabbins set I ordered, I thought that the Karabits 1 was vibrant and exceptional performance comparable to the Boult 1.

I read a historical explanation of the Symphony 1 on Wikipedia. It says that after the Harty's premier recording (1935), the Philharmonia set conducted by Walton (1953) was the second recording followed by the Boult's third (1958), the Previn's fourth (1967) and the Sargent's fifth (same year, 1967) recordings. I wonder why there was a near-decade gap between the Boult and the Previn. After the Previn/Sargent, there was a decade vacuum again. On the list, I still don't know the recordings of Handley (2 recordings), Gibson and Slatkin. I am sure the list is missing several minor recordings, including those I just ordered.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._1_(Walton)

Brett - that list looks pretty complete to me.  Handley/RLPO I don't know but remember it not having great critical reception.  Handley/Bournemouth is very good and is coupled with an excellent Hindemith Variations which is one of my favourite of the 'later' works.  Gibson is OK but not in the same league as his Sibelius.  Slatkin was a relative disappointment as I recall but haven't relistened to it in years so I might well be wrong!  Of the less often commented on recordings I like Paul Daniel with the Orchestra of Opera North - not the tidiest of versions but powerful.  Not fussed by the recent Gardener who I think is helped by great recording and playing but no real personality in the interpretation.  The Boult/BBC Music Mag version is worth hearing for sure but again not the tidiest playing or best recording.  The Ashkenazy is surprisingly good given that technically Ashkenazy was a bit of a liability as a conductor and these works do need 'proper' conducting.  The only real duffer of a performance is Arwel-Hughes on BIS in Lille.  Not that well recorded (a big surprise for BIS) and the playing is lacklustre and rather wan.

I'd agree with Vandermolen that the 1st movement is one of the great 20th Century Symphonic movements - such inexorable energy - a kind of Sibelius with greater rhythmic drive.

Glad you liked the Judd/Florida disc.  Judd is a very underated conductor - a shame he never has had a major appointment with a British orchestra.  His recordings are consistently fine and he certainly gets the best out of his Florida players.  Liken Rosand is an old-school player; bags of personality - sometimes you love what he does sometimes it can seem wayward.  Not super-solid technique (but still very good) but I'd trade the occasional tiny flaw for his insights.  Check out his out concerti on Vox if you are curious!

vandermolen

Totally agree with the characteristically insightful comments from Roasted Swan. I'd forgotten about the Ashkenazy disc but you are right it's excellent. In fact when I bought new stereo speakers a few years ago it was the first CD that I played with great pleasure. I think that there is a recording of Ashkenazy conducted the 2nd Symphony in Moscow. I agree with the comments about the Handley, Slatkin and Daniel recordings. A pity about the Lille recording although it gets my vote for the best cover image:
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Dry Brett Kavanaugh

#534
Great insights, Jeffrey, John and Roasted Swan. Thanks a lot!
Not a big fan of Ashkenazy's piano or conducting, but I will check his No.1.
As for Gardner/BBC, I like his Viola C/Partita.
Btw, the below is an Amazon (the U.S.A.) customer review of the Leaper Symphony 1. Funny and interesting.

This is my favourite recording of this work, unlike other recordings the music
has some room to breathe. This is very apparent in the opening measures, where
we are gradually introduced to the music - unlike other recordings where we are
thrown right in at the deep end. In short, this is a very measured performance that
will be of great help in enjoying the work as a whole.

The first recording by Andre Previn is widely considered to be the benchmark
performance of this work. Certainly it starts off as it means to continue, the music
is very much to the fore but the overall effect is a little chaotic. Very satisfying to
listen to, perhaps the neighbours will bang on the walls, dogs may howl, and at the
end it will be hard to remember exactly what just happened.

The second movement, marked 'Presto, con malizia', was apparently inspired
by a failed romance and was originally meant to be the first movement but was eventually reworked as the second movement. Previn's first recording is thought to have gotten the best out of this music but eventually he (as well as Sir Adrian Boult) found it too much to perform on a regular basis. Even so, he did eventually make a second recording of this work, apparently somewhat subdued from his first recording.

[Re the second movement, Walton's biographer Michael Kennedy: "Most surprisingly,
the 'Presto, con malizia' is bitingly savage and vicious. I say surprisingly because
Boult was asked to repeat the symphony at the Proms in 1976 but refused (to Walton's
annoyance) because, as he told a friend, 'somehow I couldn't face all that malice a
second time and said so'."]

There is also a wonderfully crunchy recording by Bernard Haitink which is also
very fine. As with the Previn recording, it will be very apparent within the first few
bars as to what exactly the listener is in for. Lots of brassy horns and kettle drums.
Once again, the music is very much to the fore but the overall effect is cacaphonous.

So, to conclude, this is a recording that may appeal to listeners who are not
purely interested in testing their speakers - it is a balanced effort that enables all
parts of the music to be listened to and will not rattle the walls. Or at least not as
much as the recordings listed. Even so, it still features a broad range of tones and
will surely prove satifying to most listeners. However, in order to judge which (if any)
of these recordings is to individual taste, it is merely necessary to listen to the first
few minutes of any of these recordings, as they all establish their merits (or otherwise)
at the outset.

vandermolen

#535
Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 17, 2020, 05:08:51 AM
Great insights, Jeffrey, John and Roasted Swan. Thanks a lot!
Not a big fan of Ashkenazy's piano or conducting, but I will check his No.1.
As for Gardner/BBC, I like his Viola C/Partita.
Btw, the below is an Amazon (the U.S.A.) customer review of the Leaper Symphony 1. Funny and interesting.

This is my favourite recording of this work, unlike other recordings the music
has some room to breathe. This is very apparent in the opening measures, where
we are gradually introduced to the music - unlike other recordings where we are
thrown right in at the deep end. In short, this is a very measured performance that
will be of great help in enjoying the work as a whole.

The first recording by Andre Previn is widely considered to be the benchmark
performance of this work. Certainly it starts off as it means to continue, the music
is very much to the fore but the overall effect is a little chaotic. Very satisfying to
listen to, perhaps the neighbours will bang on the walls, dogs may howl, and at the
end it will be hard to remember exactly what just happened.

The second movement, marked 'Presto, con malizia', was apparently inspired
by a failed romance and was originally meant to be the first movement but was eventually reworked as the second movement. Previn's first recording is thought to have gotten the best out of this music but eventually he (as well as Sir Adrian Boult) found it too much to perform on a regular basis. Even so, he did eventually make a second recording of this work, apparently somewhat subdued from his first recording.

[Re the second movement, Walton's biographer Michael Kennedy: "Most surprisingly,
the 'Presto, con malizia' is bitingly savage and vicious. I say surprisingly because
Boult was asked to repeat the symphony at the Proms in 1976 but refused (to Walton's
annoyance) because, as he told a friend, 'somehow I couldn't face all that malice a
second time and said so'."]

There is also a wonderfully crunchy recording by Bernard Haitink which is also
very fine. As with the Previn recording, it will be very apparent within the first few
bars as to what exactly the listener is in for. Lots of brassy horns and kettle drums.
Once again, the music is very much to the fore but the overall effect is cacaphonous.

So, to conclude, this is a recording that may appeal to listeners who are not
purely interested in testing their speakers - it is a balanced effort that enables all
parts of the music to be listened to and will not rattle the walls. Or at least not as
much as the recordings listed. Even so, it still features a broad range of tones and
will surely prove satifying to most listeners. However, in order to judge which (if any)
of these recordings is to individual taste, it is merely necessary to listen to the first
few minutes of any of these recordings, as they all establish their merits (or otherwise)
at the outset.
Very interesting and entertaining DBK. Thank you for posting it. I liked the reference to Haitink's recording as 'crunchy' - I must start using that description! He or She is right about Leaper as well. I've just been listening to the same orchestra turning in a very exciting performance of Korngold's great Symphony (see WAYLT thread). That performance definitely gains in cumulative power and I remember it as a very rewarding listening experience. Also, thanks for clearing up why Boult didn't perform the work more often.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Dry Brett Kavanaugh

Quote from: vandermolen on July 17, 2020, 05:53:23 AM
Very interesting and entertaining DBK. Thank you for posting it. I liked the reference to Haitink's recording as 'crunchy' - I must start using that description! He or She is right about Leaper as well. I've just been listening to the same orchestra turning in a very exciting performance of Korngold's great Symphony (see WAYLT thread). That performance definitely gains in cumulative power and I remember it as a very rewarding listening experience. Also, thanks for clearing up why Boult didn't perform the work more often.

I don't understand why many/several people say cynical things about the 2nd mvt. I like it, and the finale, a lot.

P.s. I like the cover art of Leaper 1, as well as other ArteNova discs.

Roasted Swan

Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on July 17, 2020, 06:04:30 AM
I don't understand why many/several people say cynical things about the 2nd mvt. I like it, and the finale, a lot.

P.s. I like the cover art of Leaper 1, as well as other ArteNova discs.

Just to throw a "what might be" into the mix.  A good 25+ years ago I used to do a lot of Musical Theatre tours etc in the UK.  The musical director for several was Martin Yates who of course has gone onto do many very fine recordings for Dutton etc of Arnell/RVW/Bax/Moeran etc etc.  Back then Yates, who had Previn as one of his conducting teachers, was talking about how he'd love to record Walton 1.....  My guess is he'd do a terrific job of it - his style is perfectly suited to the jagged/highly rhythmic/nervous-aggressive Waltonian world

Dry Brett Kavanaugh

I will look for recordings by Judd, as well as Rosand. Everything Paul Daniel/English Northern does is effective and successful.

Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 17, 2020, 04:05:14 AM
Brett - that list looks pretty complete to me.  Handley/RLPO I don't know but remember it not having great critical reception.  Handley/Bournemouth is very good and is coupled with an excellent Hindemith Variations which is one of my favourite of the 'later' works.  Gibson is OK but not in the same league as his Sibelius.  Slatkin was a relative disappointment as I recall but haven't relistened to it in years so I might well be wrong!  Of the less often commented on recordings I like Paul Daniel with the Orchestra of Opera North - not the tidiest of versions but powerful.  Not fussed by the recent Gardener who I think is helped by great recording and playing but no real personality in the interpretation.  The Boult/BBC Music Mag version is worth hearing for sure but again not the tidiest playing or best recording.  The Ashkenazy is surprisingly good given that technically Ashkenazy was a bit of a liability as a conductor and these works do need 'proper' conducting.  The only real duffer of a performance is Arwel-Hughes on BIS in Lille.  Not that well recorded (a big surprise for BIS) and the playing is lacklustre and rather wan.

I'd agree with Vandermolen that the 1st movement is one of the great 20th Century Symphonic movements - such inexorable energy - a kind of Sibelius with greater rhythmic drive.

Glad you liked the Judd/Florida disc.  Judd is a very underated conductor - a shame he never has had a major appointment with a British orchestra.  His recordings are consistently fine and he certainly gets the best out of his Florida players.  Liken Rosand is an old-school player; bags of personality - sometimes you love what he does sometimes it can seem wayward.  Not super-solid technique (but still very good) but I'd trade the occasional tiny flaw for his insights.  Check out his out concerti on Vox if you are curious!

Mirror Image

Quote from: vandermolen on July 16, 2020, 10:11:25 PM
Interesting John. Much as I love that symphony I don't think that any of the other movements are as good as the first movement which is, to me, like a symphony in itself. Often there are comments that the last movement, composed after a gap, is not as good as the other movements but I disagree and think that it's a great conclusion to the work. Actually I find the slow movement of Symphony No.2 more affecting than the slow movement of the First Symphony, certainly it is my favourite movement of Symphony No.2. Still, Symphony No.1 remains one of my favourite symphonies of all time.

I haven't spent a whole lot of time with the 2nd symphony, Jeffrey, so I don't really have anything to add other than I should get to know it better. I guess one reason why I feel the slow movement is weak in the 1st stems from what I believe could've been something emotionally earth-shattering, but it's almost like like Walton coped out and went for something that was in a way 'anti-climatic'. What would you say? Anyway, I just feel this movement meanders too much and simply doesn't deliver 'the goods' so to speak.