Sir William Walton

Started by tjguitar, April 16, 2007, 09:15:49 AM

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vandermolen

#440
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on July 06, 2020, 05:47:59 AM
I thought that the Olivier set was in the 12 disc box, but I was wrong. I will get the album. Also the Mackerras No.1 is not in the box either and I need to get it. I must find out what EMI recordings are not included in the box set.

The Walton Henry V is quite expensive on Amazon.com but the Marriner is very inexpensive - you should enjoy that disc. The Mackerras CD of the two Walton symphonies is inexpensive, especially in its 'EMI Eminence' manifestation. There is also a good complete Henry V on Naxos featuring that fine actor Michael Sheen (actually you get two fine actors as the release also features Anton Lesser) but he is rather too closely miked and the orchestra is quite recessed. It is still a most enjoyable CD:
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Dry Brett Kavanaugh

I checked the Andrew Penny set on YT, and it sounds very good. Unexpectedly, the sound quality is good too. The vocal is a little big, but it doesn't annoy me.  I like the performance by the orchestra. I need to get the disc.
A little serious question is that the back cover mentions Christopher Palmer, not M. Mathieson, as an arranger. If I am not mistaken, would this indicate a different arrangement? Apology for my ignorance, but there are so many recordings/versions of Henry V, and I am neither in the relevant generation nor U.K. citizen.

P.s. do you like rugby, Jeffrey? If SIr WW wrote a music for the Red and Whites, it would have been great!


Quote from: vandermolen on July 06, 2020, 06:16:25 AM
The Walton Henry V is quite expensive on Amazon.com but the Marriner is very inexpensive - you should enjoy that disc. The Mackerras CD of the two Walton symphonies is inexpensive, especially in its 'EMI Eminence' manifestation. There is also a good complete Henry V on Naxos featuring that fine actor Michael Sheen (actually you get two fine actors as the release also features Anton Lesser) but he is rather too closely miked and the orchestra is quite recessed. It is still a most enjoyable CD:


Roasted Swan

#442
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on July 06, 2020, 01:17:54 PM
I checked the Andrew Penny set on YT, and it sounds very good. Unexpectedly, the sound quality is good too. The vocal is a little big, but it doesn't annoy me.  I like the performance by the orchestra. I need to get the disc.
A little serious question is that the back cover mentions Christopher Palmer, not M. Mathieson, as an arranger. If I am not mistaken, would this indicate a different arrangement? Apology for my ignorance, but there are so many recordings/versions of Henry V, and I am neither in the relevant generation nor U.K. citizen.

P.s. do you like rugby, Jeffrey? If SIr WW wrote a music for the Red and Whites, it would have been great!

Brett - perfectly reasonable question.  Muir Mathieson was one of the main driving forces behind British music in film.  His name turns up on inumerable films as conductor etc.  His role in creating the concert suite of Henry V was simply to adapt the music to make it work away from the screen.  This would involve re-arranging the music to remove the chorus etc and/or ensure the orchestration was "standard".  Christopher Palmer went a stage further.  Palmer was one of the GREAT film score arrangers/restorers and he died far too young.  His name also turns up on many great albums of film music.  The difference is that he sought to restore the music as heard on the original sound track.  With Henry V he then fashioned the music into a single coherent span thereby creating what he called this "scenario for orchestra".  So while both scores are of the "same" music they are different and a Walton fan would probably want both.  Walton of course recorded the Mathieson suite with the Philharmonia (different from the version with Olivier speaking excerpts) and that still sounds excellent.  But Palmer allows you to hear so much more music than is included in the quite brief suite

PS:  when I was at school in Liverpool in the 70's - the RLPO used to run daytime "school concerts" and I remember one being conducted by Muir Mathieson - a significant fact that eluded me in all my teenaged indifference.  I also remember they played "Dambusters" march at the concert which was my first encounter with Eric Coates and I loved it!  Ron Goodwin was another RLPO regular who led brilliantly entertaining concerts I remember.

vandermolen

#443
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on July 06, 2020, 01:17:54 PM
I checked the Andrew Penny set on YT, and it sounds very good. Unexpectedly, the sound quality is good too. The vocal is a little big, but it doesn't annoy me.  I like the performance by the orchestra. I need to get the disc.
A little serious question is that the back cover mentions Christopher Palmer, not M. Mathieson, as an arranger. If I am not mistaken, would this indicate a different arrangement? Apology for my ignorance, but there are so many recordings/versions of Henry V, and I am neither in the relevant generation nor U.K. citizen.

P.s. do you like rugby, Jeffrey? If SIr WW wrote a music for the Red and Whites, it would have been great!
Hi FBK. Roasted Swan has provided a much more coherent answer than I could  :)
Yes, Christopher Palmer died much too young. I remember an excellent and highly entertaining TV documentary about the composer Bernard Herrmann in which Christopher Palmer made some memorable and highly entertaining contributions. He also championed lesser known British composer like Sir George Dyson (you might enjoy his Symphony which is on Naxos). As for your rugby question I'm not sure if you mean the work by Honegger (a recent discovery - I like it very much) or the game of rugby (no, I much prefer soccer - I don't like cricket either :o)
Yes, the Penny CD is well worth having.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Dry Brett Kavanaugh

Jeffrey and Roasted, thank you for the helpful info and much deep insights on Henry V. In addition to the genius of Walton, I admire the exceptional talent of Mathieson and Palmer.
I read the info about Henry V Suite on the Wikipedia, and now I understand that there are 3 Suites, including the Malcolm Sargent (1945), Mathieson (1963) and Palmer (1988) versions.
The Sargent suite was recorded by Carl Davis, whereas the Mathieson suite was recorded by Walton, Groves, Previn, Litton, etc. Palmers'  Henry V Shakespeare Scenario was recorded by Marriner, Slatkin and Andrew Penny. (Palmer created Richard III Shakespeare Scenario as well).

My 12 disc box has the Sargent/Davis and Mathieson/Walton recordings of Henry V, and I checked all others, except the Slatkin, on Internet. All of them sound good, but the EMI recording conducted by Walton sounds penetrating and exceptional.  Also I prefer the Richard III in the album to the same by Grove. Plus, the Spitfire conducted by Walton sounds so cool. Jeffrey, thank you for recommending this album. Roasted, thank you for the explanation. Now it makes sense why I heard the theme of History of English Speaking People in some recordings of Henry V. I envy your experience with the RLPO in Liverpool! I didn't have a similar privilege in north Japan. I ordered the EMI Walton as well as the Penny and Marriner albums. I don't know much about Slatkin's recording (Palmer suite), but will look for it. Thanks a lot.

P.s. I was impressed by the English rugby sport team in the Rugby World Cup last year. As for soccer, both the men and women teams of England are exceptional.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suite_from_Henry_V


Dry Brett Kavanaugh

Thank you for your explanation. Now I understand better. I ordered the Penny/Marriner(Palmer) as well as the Walton/Mathieson recordings. I will look for the Slatkin. When I was a kid I was listening to the Beatles, mostly Lennon, and dreaming about Liverpool.


Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 06, 2020, 11:14:33 PM
Brett - perfectly reasonable question.  Muir Mathieson was one of the main driving forces behind British music in film.  His name turns up on inumerable films as conductor etc.  His role in creating the concert suite of Henry V was simply to adapt the music to make it work away from the screen.  This would involve re-arranging the music to remove the chorus etc and/or ensure the orchestration was "standard".  Christopher Palmer went a stage further.  Palmer was one of the GREAT film score arrangers/restorers and he died far too young.  His name also turns up on many great albums of film music.  The difference is that he sought to restore the music as heard on the original sound track.  With Henry V he then fashioned the music into a single coherent span thereby creating what he called this "scenario for orchestra".  So while both scores are of the "same" music they are different and a Walton fan would probably want both.  Walton of course recorded the Mathieson suite with the Philharmonia (different from the version with Olivier speaking excerpts) and that still sounds excellent.  But Palmer allows you to hear so much more music than is included in the quite brief suite

PS:  when I was at school in Liverpool in the 70's - the RLPO used to run daytime "school concerts" and I remember one being conducted by Muir Mathieson - a significant fact that eluded me in all my teenaged indifference.  I also remember they played "Dambusters" march at the concert which was my first encounter with Eric Coates and I loved it!  Ron Goodwin was another RLPO regular who led brilliantly entertaining concerts I remember.

vandermolen

#446
Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on July 07, 2020, 07:21:43 AM
Jeffrey and Roasted, thank you for the helpful info and much deep insights on Henry V. In addition to the genius of Walton, I admire the exceptional talent of Mathieson and Palmer.
I read the info about Henry V Suite on the Wikipedia, and now I understand that there are 3 Suites, including the Malcolm Sargent (1945), Mathieson (1963) and Palmer (1988) versions.
The Sargent suite was recorded by Carl Davis, whereas the Mathieson suite was recorded by Walton, Groves, Previn, Litton, etc. Palmers'  Henry V Shakespeare Scenario was recorded by Marriner, Slatkin and Andrew Penny. (Palmer created Richard III Shakespeare Scenario as well).

My 12 disc box has the Sargent/Davis and Mathieson/Walton recordings of Henry V, and I checked all others, except the Slatkin, on Internet. All of them sound good, but the EMI recording conducted by Walton sounds penetrating and exceptional.  Also I prefer the Richard III in the album to the same by Grove. Plus, the Spitfire conducted by Walton sounds so cool. Jeffrey, thank you for recommending this album. Roasted, thank you for the explanation. Now it makes sense why I heard the theme of History of English Speaking People in some recordings of Henry V. I envy your experience with the RLPO in Liverpool! I didn't have a similar privilege in north Japan. I ordered the EMI Walton as well as the Penny and Marriner albums. I don't know much about Slatkin's recording (Palmer suite), but will look for it. Thanks a lot.

P.s. I was impressed by the English rugby sport team in the Rugby World Cup last year. As for soccer, both the men and women teams of England are exceptional.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suite_from_Henry_V
FBK - your 'Jeffrey and Roasted' comment made me laugh. I should have mentioned the excellent Carl Davis recording of the film music which I think you have in your boxed set. Crucially the Sargent version of Henry V includes 'Prelude-The Globe' which is not included in the more popular Mathieson arrangement. That Prelude, however is very moving as it's played against a panning in shot of medieval London. This was a patriotic wartime propaganda film of course, like Alexander Nevsky (pre-war) or Ivan Grozny in the USSR. The prologue theme comes back later '...this star of England' and, as I say, I find it very moving in its wartime context. That CD also includes the lovely 'As You Like It' Suite with the charming Fountain Scene and, of course, Walton's rejected score for Battle of Britain. It was only due to Laurence Olivier's intervention that any of Walton's score was used at all: 'The Battle in the Air' which is the best music in the film:
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Roasted Swan

Quote from: Forever Brett Kavanaugh on July 07, 2020, 07:21:43 AM
Jeffrey and Roasted, thank you for the helpful info and much deep insights on Henry V. In addition to the genius of Walton, I admire the exceptional talent of Mathieson and Palmer.
I read the info about Henry V Suite on the Wikipedia, and now I understand that there are 3 Suites, including the Malcolm Sargent (1945), Mathieson (1963) and Palmer (1988) versions.
The Sargent suite was recorded by Carl Davis, whereas the Mathieson suite was recorded by Walton, Groves, Previn, Litton, etc. Palmers'  Henry V Shakespeare Scenario was recorded by Marriner, Slatkin and Andrew Penny. (Palmer created Richard III Shakespeare Scenario as well).

My 12 disc box has the Sargent/Davis and Mathieson/Walton recordings of Henry V, and I checked all others, except the Slatkin, on Internet. All of them sound good, but the EMI recording conducted by Walton sounds penetrating and exceptional.  Also I prefer the Richard III in the album to the same by Grove. Plus, the Spitfire conducted by Walton sounds so cool. Jeffrey, thank you for recommending this album. Roasted, thank you for the explanation. Now it makes sense why I heard the theme of History of English Speaking People in some recordings of Henry V. I envy your experience with the RLPO in Liverpool! I didn't have a similar privilege in north Japan. I ordered the EMI Walton as well as the Penny and Marriner albums. I don't know much about Slatkin's recording (Palmer suite), but will look for it. Thanks a lot.

P.s. I was impressed by the English rugby sport team in the Rugby World Cup last year. As for soccer, both the men and women teams of England are exceptional.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suite_from_Henry_V

The Slatkin was a BBC Music Magazine cover disc which I have and remember as good - Sam West as the speaker.   In the light of this discussion I've just ordered the Naxos/Penny/Sheen disc too.  Sheen is such a fine actor I think he'd be excellent in the spoken part.  I find Christopher Plummer on Chandos a bit underwhelming although the orchestral contribution is first rate!  There was also an old Readers Digest selection with Charles Gerhardt conducting who is always top notch in film music.

Palmer wrote a great book about the Hollywood Film music composers too which is excellent.....

Mirror Image

#448
Quote from: vandermolen on July 07, 2020, 08:08:46 AM
FBK - your 'Jeffrey and Roasted' comment made me laugh. I should have mentioned the excellent Carl Davis recording of the film music which I think you have in your boxed set. Crucially the Sargent version of Henry V includes 'Prelude-The Globe' which is not included in the more popular Mathieson arrangement. That Prelude, however is very moving as it's played against a panning in shot of medieval London. This was a patriotic wartime propaganda film of course, like Alexander Nevsky (pre-war) or Ivan Grozny in the USSR. The prologue theme comes back later '...this star of England' and, as I say, I find it very moving in its wartime context. That CD also includes the lovely 'As You Like It' Suite with the charming Fountain Scene and, of course, Walton's rejected score for Battle of Britain. It was only due to Laurence Olivier's intervention that any of Walton's score was used at all: 'The Battle in the Air' which is the best music in the film:


That's a stunning recording right there, Jeffrey. I absolutely feel in love with the As You Like It Suite. Don't forget that incredible Waterfall Scene section. This was Walton in full-blown Respighi mode, especially towards the end with the magnificent brass. Makes my ears perk up --- incredibly gorgeous.

vandermolen

Quote from: Mirror Image on July 07, 2020, 09:50:19 AM
That's a stunning recording right there, Jeffrey. I absolutely feel in love with the As You Like It Suite. Don't forget that incredible Waterfall Scene section. This was Walton in full-blown Respighi mode, especially towards the end with the magnificent brass. Makes my ears perk up --- incredibly gorgeous.
Oh, I think that I meant 'Waterfall' rather than 'Fountain Scene' - yes, lovely.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

vandermolen

#450
Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 07, 2020, 09:05:59 AM
The Slatkin was a BBC Music Magazine cover disc which I have and remember as good - Sam West as the speaker.   In the light of this discussion I've just ordered the Naxos/Penny/Sheen disc too.  Sheen is such a fine actor I think he'd be excellent in the spoken part.  I find Christopher Plummer on Chandos a bit underwhelming although the orchestral contribution is first rate!  There was also an old Readers Digest selection with Charles Gerhardt conducting who is always top notch in film music.

Palmer wrote a great book about the Hollywood Film music composers too which is excellent.....
I have the BBC Sam West disc too. I'm sure you'll enjoy the Naxos, Penny, Sheen, Lesser disc. There's also a version with a reduced orchestra featuring John 'Bergerac' Nettles:

"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Mirror Image

Quote from: vandermolen on July 07, 2020, 01:36:17 PM
Oh, I think that I meant 'Waterfall' rather than 'Fountain Scene' - yes, lovely.

Well, to be fair, the Fountain Scene is beautiful, too. ;)

vandermolen

Quote from: Mirror Image on July 07, 2020, 02:21:08 PM
Well, to be fair, the Fountain Scene is beautiful, too. ;)
Oh, you're quite right. I must listen to the Suite again.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Irons

Quote from: Roasted Swan on July 06, 2020, 11:14:33 PM
Brett - perfectly reasonable question.  Muir Mathieson was one of the main driving forces behind British music in film.  His name turns up on inumerable films as conductor etc.  His role in creating the concert suite of Henry V was simply to adapt the music to make it work away from the screen.  This would involve re-arranging the music to remove the chorus etc and/or ensure the orchestration was "standard".  Christopher Palmer went a stage further.  Palmer was one of the GREAT film score arrangers/restorers and he died far too young.  His name also turns up on many great albums of film music.  The difference is that he sought to restore the music as heard on the original sound track.  With Henry V he then fashioned the music into a single coherent span thereby creating what he called this "scenario for orchestra".  So while both scores are of the "same" music they are different and a Walton fan would probably want both.  Walton of course recorded the Mathieson suite with the Philharmonia (different from the version with Olivier speaking excerpts) and that still sounds excellent.  But Palmer allows you to hear so much more music than is included in the quite brief suite

PS:  when I was at school in Liverpool in the 70's - the RLPO used to run daytime "school concerts" and I remember one being conducted by Muir Mathieson - a significant fact that eluded me in all my teenaged indifference.  I also remember they played "Dambusters" march at the concert which was my first encounter with Eric Coates and I loved it!  Ron Goodwin was another RLPO regular who led brilliantly entertaining concerts I remember.

Good to see Muir Mathieson's name turning up in this discussion. He made some fine recordings as the "house" conductor for the subscription record label The World Record Club and have always thought he didn't receive credit due.
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

I opened the door people rushed through and I was left holding the knob - Bo Diddley.

vandermolen

#454
Quote from: Irons on July 07, 2020, 11:35:04 PM
Good to see Muir Mathieson's name turning up in this discussion. He made some fine recordings as the "house" conductor for the subscription record label The World Record Club and have always thought he didn't receive credit due.
That looks like an interesting release Lol. I didn't know it existed. I associate Muir Mathieson with film music and have a nice CD featuring Boult's first (EMI) recording of Vaughan Williams's 6th Symphony coupled with his film music. Three of the film scores are conducted by Mathieson:
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Roasted Swan

From the LSO's website:

In March 1935 the musicians of the LSO gathered at London's old Scala Theatre in Tottenham Street to perform the music for the new film Things to Come and, following 14 full orchestral sessions, started a veritable revolution in film production history.

Until that time, recorded film music had consisted essentially of work by small bands and groups performing theme songs and pieces of short background music. But with the commissioning of Sir Arthur Bliss to compose a score performed by a full symphony orchestra for Alexander Korda's adaptation of H G Wells's famous novel, the face of film music was changed forever – not only in Britain but also around the world. For the first time, music for the cinema, previously regarded as a lowly art form, captured the attention of classical music scholars and enthusiasts, music critics and the film and music public. The LSO had begun its long historic journey as the premier film orchestra.

Muir Mathieson's influence:

It was Korda's brilliant Scottish musical director Muir Mathieson, the most important single figure in the early history of British film music, who enlisted Bliss to write a score for Things to Come, and who was subsequently responsible for bringing the most eminent British 20th-century composers to work for cinema. Ralph Vaughan Williams, William Walton, Richard Addinsell, William Alwyn and Arnold Bax composed for film as a direct result of Mathieson's musical expertise and burning enthusiasm.

Mathieson had attended the Royal College of Music, studying composition and conducting under Arthur Benjamin and Malcolm Sargent, and was trusted by the music establishment. He adored the LSO and played a key part in establishing its fundamental contribution to film music. Describing the LSO as 'the perfect film orchestra', Mathieson's significance was highlighted in 1946 when he directed Instruments of the Orchestra, a precious film record of the LSO at work.

Malcolm Sargent conducted the musicians in a performance of Benjamin Britten's The Young Person's Guide to the Orchestra, which was specially written by Britten for the film. Made essentially as an educational tool for children, Mathieson's documentary, with its close-ups of the musicians and their instruments, beautifully captures the vibrancy and texture of the Orchestra amidst the optimism of the post-Second World War era.



Here's a picture of Walton, Olivier and Mathieson on the set of Hamlet

Irons

Quote from: vandermolen on July 07, 2020, 11:56:30 PM
That looks like an interesting release Lol. I didn't know it existed. I associate Muir Mathieson with film music and have a nice CD featuring Boult's first (EMI) recording of Vaughan Williams's 6th Symphony coupled with his film music. Three of the film scores are conducted by Mathieson:


Took a peep at Mathieson's discography Jeffrey and as you say film music is paramount. I can't help feeling if only .....
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

I opened the door people rushed through and I was left holding the knob - Bo Diddley.

Dry Brett Kavanaugh

😍😍😍😍😍


Quote from: Irons on July 08, 2020, 06:04:44 AM
Took a peep at Mathieson's discography Jeffrey and as you say film music is paramount. I can't help feeling if only .....

vandermolen

Quote from: Irons on July 08, 2020, 06:04:44 AM
Took a peep at Mathieson's discography Jeffrey and as you say film music is paramount. I can't help feeling if only .....
I've just ordered the Tchaikovsky 'Pathetique' LP - your fault  ;D
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Dry Brett Kavanaugh

Yes, the prelude-globe is a spiritual and sublime piece. I can't believe that this is not included in the subsequent Suites.
It would take a year for me to fully grasp the difference among the 3 versions of Henry V as well as the nuances in many recordings.
I forgot to mention the Judd/Mathieson recording. My intuition is that you already have the album.


Quote from: vandermolen on July 07, 2020, 08:08:46 AM
FBK - your 'Jeffrey and Roasted' comment made me laugh. I should have mentioned the excellent Carl Davis recording of the film music which I think you have in your boxed set. Crucially the Sargent version of Henry V includes 'Prelude-The Globe' which is not included in the more popular Mathieson arrangement. That Prelude, however is very moving as it's played against a panning in shot of medieval London. This was a patriotic wartime propaganda film of course, like Alexander Nevsky (pre-war) or Ivan Grozny in the USSR. The prologue theme comes back later '...this star of England' and, as I say, I find it very moving in its wartime context. That CD also includes the lovely 'As You Like It' Suite with the charming Fountain Scene and, of course, Walton's rejected score for Battle of Britain. It was only due to Laurence Olivier's intervention that any of Walton's score was used at all: 'The Battle in the Air' which is the best music in the film: