William Schuman (1910-1992)

[Symphonic Addict]

I find the slower sections to be too desolate and rather "arid", but perhaps that is the expressive point of them

The music is intended to sound that way, but I disagree with the "arid" word. I think those afflicted sections make sense and have purpose into the musical discourse.

But overall, I wouldn't say he's amongst my favorite American composers.

It seems that you're agreeing with Hurwitz lately, aren't you? 

In my case, he is one of my favorite American composers hands down, not only for his symphonies (all of them), but also for the string quartets, Prayer in a Time of War, Undertow, New England Triptych, etc.

[kyjo]

The music is intended to sound that way, but I disagree with the "arid" word. I think those afflicted sections make sense and have purpose into the musical discourse.

It seems that you're agreeing with Hurwitz lately, aren't you? 

In my case, he is one of my favorite American composers hands down, not only for his symphonies (all of them), but also for the string quartets, Prayer in a Time of War, Undertow, New England Triptych, etc.

You're right, those more "desolate" (maybe a better word than "arid") sections in the 6th Symphony do serve a musical purpose. I'll revisit the work at some point to hopefully make greater sense of it! What would you say your rough order of preference for the symphonies is? I'm not too familiar with most of the later ones especially.

And yes, I can't deny that I agree with Hurwitz a lot of the time! He's also a great admirer of Lloyd and Braga Santos, so how could I not? Of course, there's some works that he's trashed which I love (Khachaturian's VC and 2nd Symphony, Svendsen's symphonies, etc).

[Karl Henning]

Was recently listening to the 6th Symphony (Seattle Symphony/Schwarz on Naxos) and am in two minds about it. On one hand, I find the faster, more aggressive sections to be quite viscerally thrilling (with their prominent timpani writing), however I find the slower sections to be too desolate and rather "arid", but perhaps that is the expressive point of them. That said, I do find the reflective, quiet ending to be quite moving with its oscillations between major and minor (ultimately ending in minor) - rather reminiscent of the coda of Britten's Violin Concerto. I know Jeffrey/vandermolen is a great admirer of the work - any other opinions?

As with many people, my favorite Schuman work is definitely the absolutely dynamite 3rd Symphony (in the NYPO/Bernstein recording on Sony - tremendous!), which lacks the "dead spots" of some of his other works. I'm also a great admirer of his Violin Concerto and New England Triptych. But overall, I wouldn't say he's amongst my favorite American composers.

I should revisit this 'un. I remember having enjoyed it. I'll play it for today's PT session.

[Karl Henning]

[Spenserian]

It was fun to find SChuman appearing multiple times in Copland's autobiography (with some non-autobiographical sections by Vivian Perlis), praised as friend and administrator, and early on as composer, Copland quoting an old column: "Schuman is, so far as I am concerned, the musical find of the year. There is nothing puny or miniature about this young man's talent. If he fails he will fail on a grand scale ... it seems to me that Schuman is composer who is going places." Later in a letter (to Viktor Kraft) he praised a radio performance of the second symphony: "... what I like about it is that it seems to be music that comes from a real urge, which gives it an immediacy of feeling that gets everyone who hears it. If he can build on that, we've got something there." I also appreciate in Schuman that his music is unashamedly grandiose and forces you to really listen, refuses to be a simple listen. (In a note in Copland's correspondance I find the interesting fact that Schuman was the first winner of both the Pulitzer Prize in music and Music Critics' Circle award.)

[Brian]

Was recently listening to the 6th Symphony (Seattle Symphony/Schwarz on Naxos) and am in two minds about it. On one hand, I find the faster, more aggressive sections to be quite viscerally thrilling (with their prominent timpani writing), however I find the slower sections to be too desolate and rather "arid", but perhaps that is the expressive point of them. That said, I do find the reflective, quiet ending to be quite moving with its oscillations between major and minor (ultimately ending in minor) - rather reminiscent of the coda of Britten's Violin Concerto. I know Jeffrey/vandermolen is a great admirer of the work - any other opinions?

As with many people, my favorite Schuman work is definitely the absolutely dynamite 3rd Symphony (in the NYPO/Bernstein recording on Sony - tremendous!), which lacks the "dead spots" of some of his other works. I'm also a great admirer of his Violin Concerto and New England Triptych. But overall, I wouldn't say he's amongst my favorite American composers.

I'm giving Schuman's Sixth a first listen now - it was commissioned by the Dallas Symphony and therefore is relevant to a local history project I'm undertaking. Apparently the Dallas audiences were so outraged by the piece that some of them demanded that the DSO not complete its payment for the commission. I'm halfway through as of writing this post, but the first slow section, which begins the whole symphony, seemed quite lyrically melancholy to me. Not as obviously beautiful as, say, Sibelius' Sixth, but certainly something an audience would relate to today. The fast stuff is as exciting as you say. Looking forward to the rest. 

[vandermolen]

I'm giving Schuman's Sixth a first listen now - it was commissioned by the Dallas Symphony and therefore is relevant to a local history project I'm undertaking. Apparently the Dallas audiences were so outraged by the piece that some of them demanded that the DSO not complete its payment for the commission. I'm halfway through as of writing this post, but the first slow section, which begins the whole symphony, seemed quite lyrically melancholy to me. Not as obviously beautiful as, say, Sibelius' Sixth, but certainly something an audience would relate to today. The fast stuff is as exciting as you say. Looking forward to the rest. 

It features on one of my all-time-favourite CDs of music by American composers:

[foxandpeng]

Schuman 8 has really got a hold of me in the last day or so. I'm surprised that previous traversals of his symphonies have never caused me to stop in my tracks quite as this exploration has. The symphonies that I have played repeatedly this week have each stayed with me and made a mark - #3, #4, #5, but #8 has a depth and an emotional intensity that has been quite unusual.

I'm not sold on #6 yet, tbh. Only a couple of listens, but not enough interest there to draw me back so far. My mind keeps drifting off, and when it comes back, I don't actually feel that I have missed a great deal. It may simply require closer listening

Symphony 10 is another matter. I'm going to need some convincing on that one... a big run at #7 and #9 first, I think...

[foxandpeng]

After about a fortnight of pretty enthusiastic and concentrated listening, I think I'm getting to grips with the Schuman symphony cycle. Having unsuccessfully 'tried to enjoy him' on several occasions in the past, this exploration has been like chalk and cheese/night and day/insert appropriate diametric opposites. Don't know why, but glad of the shift.

As I indicated in the WAYLT thread, I don't have enough technical musical knowledge or descriptive analytical prowess to understand why his work is seen by some as academic or studious, but I know he is serious and rewarding. I've never been a tune hunter, so am more than happy with that dimension of his work, but I do think he is filled with interest. Weighty and ominous in all the right places, and wintry and autumnal rather than summery and light. I find him thoughtful rather than ephemeral. He could easily be a Top 5 American symphonist in my pointless listing, although I would be afraid to displace Diamond, Piston, Hovhaness, Antheil or Hanson.

Anyway. Enough.

Ordered favourites thus far...

8, 7, 4, 3, 6, 9, 5 and 10. 10 is still bedding in yet.

[Karl Henning]

Cross-post:

[Spotted Horses]

Reading the notes for Symphony No 3, somewhere on the internet, I saw references to the withdrawn Symphony No 2, which was performed, and there are apparently low-quality recordings of a radio broadcast floating around. There was a first performance that went ok, and a second performance in which the work was boo'd and hissed, which may have motivated the withdrawal. I'd like to hear it. Apparently it was very "progressive." Never published, and I don't know if the score exists.

[Spotted Horses]

A 1937 off-air radio recording of William Schuman Symphony No 2,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z68zIz2cyMI

I'd love to hear it in a serviceable recording.

[foxandpeng]

A 1937 off-air radio recording of William Schuman Symphony No 2,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z68zIz2cyMI

I'd love to hear it in a serviceable recording.

I look forward to listening, thank you!

[Karl Henning]

A 1937 off-air radio recording of William Schuman Symphony No 2,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z68zIz2cyMI

I'd love to hear it in a serviceable recording.

Well hunted!

[Karl Henning]

A 1937 off-air radio recording of William Schuman Symphony No 2,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z68zIz2cyMI

I'd love to hear it in a serviceable recording.

Even this rough cut is mighty impressive!