Mozart Piano Concertos

[Florestan]

A modern piano set I have greatly enjoyed is this:

[Jo498]

I think "in the background" is the more realistic balance and I suspect "cheating" with mics/mixing in the other recordings... On old instruments I have only Bilson's box and two discs with Staier/Concerto Köln (9,17-19), the latter are my favorites but I hardly listen to the box (admittedly I don't listen that much to Mozart's piano concerti as I used to).

[staxomega]

Thanks hvblas for your comments - I previously showed my 2 PI sets, i.e. Bilson & Sofronitski (also have 2 on modern pianos, Anda - also my favorite - and Zacharias on MDG) - agree w/ your comments on Bilson - his piano seems to be in the background, esp. at lower volumes and wish there were a better balance; seems to improve by upping the volume.  As for Sofronitski, I do like her playing (and on a fortepiano made by her husband), but the band is not the best, now not bad but always mentioned as a minor negative in reviews.  Immerseel appears the favorite of fortepiano versions on the forum, SO found the 3 recordings below on Spotify and am listening now - his fortepiano is well in the mix - unfortunately the 10-CD box is only available at exorbitant prices (at least where I'm looking) - Dave

   

The newer version in a black slim box is available for $70 including shipping. You have to select the 2008 edition in "see all formats and editions". https://www.amazon.com/Mozart-Concertos-Immerseel-fortepiano-Orchestra/dp/B000003UWY/

[Jo498]

Moving away from complete sets, I am interested in favs/recommendations for some of the lesser known/played/recorded concertos, preferably available not only within complete boxes.

In particular the first six of the Vienna concertos

K 413 F 11
K 414 A 12
K 415 C 13
K 449 Eb 14
K 450 Bb 15
K 451 D 16

K 271 (9) seems to be covered very well (certainly in my collection...) and I admittedly am not that interested in K 175, 238, 246, so I think I am fine with the early ones, but feel free to mention recordings of these or of any later ones that might qualify (But I think that with the possible exceptions of 18 K 456 and 26 K 537 all from K 453 are sufficiently well served on recordings.)

[Todd]

K 449 Eb 14

This one is easy for me, resulting in an immediate response:



The others require more consideration.

[Mandryka]

Moving away from complete sets, I am interested in favs/recommendations for some of the lesser known/played/recorded concertos, preferably available not only within complete boxes.

In particular the first six of the Vienna concertos

K 413 F 11
K 414 A 12
K 415 C 13
K 449 Eb 14
K 450 Bb 15
K 451 D 16

K 271 (9) seems to be covered very well and I admittedly am not that interested in K 175, 238, 246, so I think I am fine with the early ones, but feel free to mention recordings of these or of any later ones that might qualify (But I think that with the possible exceptions of 18 K 456 and 26 K 537 all from K 453 are sufficiently well served on recordings.)

14 is one of the ones I've always loved, at least since I first heard Perahia, Try Hess/Walter and Ranki/Rolla. Daniel Isoir is also well worth hearing, but maybe not quite what you're after. There's only one way to tell.


Either 15 or 16 -- I can't remember which -- I'm pretty sure 16 -- was really well done by Barenboim I thought. But it's been a long time . . .

(Yes, playing it now, 16)

[Jo498]

Barenboim/ECO is pretty good in most of these and they might be the recordings I listened to most (I used to have a single disc of 413-15 and later got the cardboard box, I rarely listen to my other box, Bilson/Gardiner).

Peter Serkin recorded 14-19 and it eventually was re-issued in a white box but this one is not cheap anymore and the single disc I have 17+18 is the only one easily findable and while good, it doesn't make me rush for an overpriced box (only one disc of which I'd really wanted, I should have bought this when it was new and under 20 EUR).

Kocsis is very good in K 413 and 415, I don't have his 414 and he apparently skipped the following 3 (Ranki did 449 and 450 but they are introuvable as physical discs)

I was not aware of Moravec/Vlach, thought that Moravec had only done later concertos.

Another dark horse for K 449 (the finale is one of the most brilliant and witty pieces in any concerto, I think) is Brendel/Janigro (Vanguard).

[Todd]

Some other recordings of no little merit:









(Firkusny/Bour in 16.)



12 & 15 with Szell.  Must haves for me.

There are also recordings contained in non-cycle big boxes by Pires and Kraus of some of these concertos.  They are quite fine.  There are recordings by Pollini and Michelangeli (DG and Aura), though they can be more variable.

[Jo498]

I have the Casadesus/Szell; I used to have another disc of that odd Firkusny/Bour series but the sound was quite bad, muffled, I got rid of it so long ago (when I was less tolerant of poor sound) that I don't even remember which one I had.

I also have at least one of the live? Michelangeli 415 and/or 450; IIRC, a bit too historical for my taste in this music. I also find even in the rather modest pieces (and certainly in 450-451) the orchestra/conducting about as important as the piano (which is a point against the Michelangeli, unfortunately).

Does anyone know Knauer/Norrington 16 K 451? I find the coupling unfortunate, as I already have some reconstruction of the double concerto (Marriner or Brown, from the time of the 1991 anniversary) and don't need the violin sonata; I'd probably bought this if it had better couplings. (Knauer seems fond of that, his K 482 comes with a concerto by Mozart's son Franz Xaver)
Pires apparently recorded only 14 K 449 of these for DG (bad coupling for me, #26, a piece I don't care for) but 12,13,14 for Erato. I had been wondering about her Erato recordings before; she also did some Bach and Chopin back then but they seem to be rarely mentioned (recall reading generally more and better things about her DG recordings), and I am bit wary about the accompaniments.

What about Zacharias (EMI/Warner or MDG) or Kirschnereit? I head some of Zacharias but not these pieces and they might fit his more playful approach. Read some very positive comments about Kirschnereit/Beermann and I have their Mendelssohn but could not be bothered with the Mozart (as I generally think I have more than enough Mozart concertos, except when I do not...)

[Mandryka]

K 449 (the finale is one of the most brilliant and witty pieces in any concerto, I think)

That's what makes Perahia interesting, the finale.

[Todd]

What about Zacharias (EMI/Warner or MDG) or Kirschnereit?

I have both Zacharias cycles and can recommend him across the board, but I left out complete cycles.  Don't know Kirschnereit's Mozart, but everything else I have heard has been excellent.

[Jo498]

My reason for excluding complete cycles was that I don't really want to get another box. I also think that most of these 6 (and earlier) concertos tend to get eclipsed by the later more famous ones when considering complete cycles (probably unavoidable). The good thing about some cycles like Kirschnereit, both of Zacharias and also Perahia, Buchbinder and Jando are still fairly easy to get in single discs with some searching.

I didn't care for the one Perahia disc (15+16, too wimpy conducting, maybe he should have used a real conductor) I had although this was over 20 years ago and maybe I should try again...

[Mandryka]

This one is easy for me, resulting in an immediate response:



The others require more consideration.

Yes very good, I just heard it for the first time.

I forgot one worth exploring -- Richter/Barshai in 14 and 15. I just played some of them again. I say again, but it's maybe 15 years since I last heard them. They sound good to me. It's clearly Richter playing, inimitable,  Richter with good technique - the Richter who conquered the West.  As it were.

[Spotted Horses]

Moving away from complete sets, I am interested in favs/recommendations for some of the lesser known/played/recorded concertos, preferably available not only within complete boxes.

In particular the first six of the Vienna concertos

K 413 F 11
K 414 A 12
K 415 C 13
K 449 Eb 14
K 450 Bb 15
K 451 D 16

K 271 (9) seems to be covered very well (certainly in my collection...) and I admittedly am not that interested in K 175, 238, 246, so I think I am fine with the early ones, but feel free to mention recordings of these or of any later ones that might qualify (But I think that with the possible exceptions of 18 K 456 and 26 K 537 all from K 453 are sufficiently well served on recordings.)

I missed your window by 1, but I found the Brautigam/Willens recording of Concerto No 17 to be revelatory, particularly the way the orchestral writing comes alive with a period instrument ensemble.

[Mandryka]

Listening this morning more carefully on a good hifi to Richter's 449 with Barshai. Terrible sound! But there's something interesting - I chose the word carefully - because of the expressiveness in the first movement. I guess this is what's meant by a romantic interpretation, an interpretation with a variety of contrasting moods expressed in the same sonata form movement.

I don't quite know what to make of it, it seems disjointed and incoherent. But I'm reluctant to just dismiss it like that. Anyway I don't know if what I'm hearing is something I'm bringing, more than something Richter and Barshai are expressing.

It's heavy, that may be the sound quality - but that dates the style a bit I think.

[Valentino]

I went and bought this reissue of K. 453 and 467 with Anda. There's a lot to enjoy, much more than I could remember.

[Jo498]

I wasn't aware or forgot that Richter had done (relatively) many Mozart concertos. In my mind he's only associated with K 466 and 482 (and I was not too fond of his studio recordings of either, the only ones I had heard, too "massive").

As for 17, it's one of my two or three favorites but too well covered by great recordings to qualify for the more niche bunch I wanted to focus on now (although I now think 14,15 are not quite that niche either).

[Jo498]

I also discovered that I have two historical live/broadcast recordings of K 450 with Michelangeli, with Scherchen in Lugano 1956 and with De Stoutz (probably 1950s as well? EDIT: Apparently more like ca. 1972 and pretty decent stereo, the Scherchen is more lively but the sound of the later one is so much better that it's probably preferable) and one K 415 from Naples 1957, dir. Caracciolo.

[SonicMan46]

Last few days I've been doing some comparison of Bilson vs. Immerseel on fortepianos in these works (I own Bilson & Sofronitsky) and have never enjoyed the the balance between Bilson's instrument and Gardiner's orchestra which to my ears 'drowns out' the fortepiano when they are playing together - listening to Immerseel on Spotify and don't have the same aural experience.

SO, I've been looking for Immerseel's box at a decent price and found this place in Brussels La Boitea Musique which apparently 'on sale' has the box pictured at the bottom (10 CDs in cardboard sleeves, I believe) - price to me is basically $41 even w/ the steep shipping (plus the Euro & Dollar are at par).  Dave

   

[Jo498]

Bilson/Gardiner is the only complete HIP I own (I have a few single discs with other fortepianists).
I am afraid that the "bad balance" is honest. (Admittedly, I have never heard a full piano concerto live on historic instruments but I have heard historic keyboard for opera recitative in the theatre which gives some impression although recitative accompaniment is supposed to be very discreet tinkling.)
Or in any case maybe the price to pay for Gardiner's assertive orchestral contribution that I generally like in most concertos. I listened to a bunch of them in the last days and it works reasonably well in the concertos with fewer wind/brass, i.e. K 413, 414, 449, even 450 and 415 are o.k. in balance (and better in other aspects). But in K 451 and 459 the keyboard is very puny indeed.