Mozart Piano Concertos

Started by Mark, September 08, 2007, 03:01:39 PM

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George

Quote from: erato on August 15, 2009, 05:51:43 AM
You should add Curzon/Britten to that list.

I may. I have Curzon/Kertesz, but haven't listened to it yet.

Mandryka

Quote from: erato on August 15, 2009, 05:51:43 AM
You should add Curzon/Britten to that list.

If you like Curzon then I'd be interested to know what you think of his records with Kubelik -- IMO these are amongst the greatest 24s and 27s ever. Poetry and real rapport between soloist and conductor.

Any fans of Edwin Fischer's Mozart?
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Valentino

Quote from: Mandryka on August 15, 2009, 05:26:36 AM
Then you shouldn't be listening to Mozart at all, since everyone knows that he is a post-modernist.

Ok. I'll try to stop.
Attention across board: Has anybody ever managed to stop listening to Mozart?
We audiophiles don't really like music, but we sure love the sound it makes;
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Mandryka

#143
Some of my favourites

Bashkirov and Barshai -- 17
Gould (studio) -- 24
Horowitz and Giulini -- 23
Landowska and Rodzinski-- 22
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Herman

Quote from: Valentino on August 16, 2009, 04:22:45 AM
Ok. I'll try to stop.
Attention across board: Has anybody ever managed to stop listening to Mozart?

Most people haven't even started.

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: Herman on August 17, 2009, 01:50:11 AM
Most people haven't even started.

Iago went to his grave a Mozart virgin.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

ChamberNut

I may go through stretches when I don't listen to Mozart............but I always come back for more!  8)

He's still firmly planted in my personal "Top 5 faves".

Mandryka

Quote from: erato on August 15, 2009, 05:19:37 AM
Any comment on Brendel/Marriner? Very cheap on amazon.de now.

They're very good -- though I would add that I think his records with Mackerras are even better. MacKerras must surely be the greatest living Mozart conductor, and Brendel. in his later years at least, the greatest living Mozart pianist.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

DavidRoss

Quote from: Valentino on August 16, 2009, 04:22:45 AM
Ok. I'll try to stop.
Attention across board: Has anybody ever managed to stop listening to Mozart?

Why would anyone want to try?  Even the dead get to hear Mozart, as his music is in heavy rotation in Heaven.  (Some might visit warmer climes after shuffling off this mortal coil.  I've heard that Wagner never tires of humming his tunes for those who cannot run fast or far enough to avoid him.)

Just yesterday I listened to Ashkenazy's lush, Romantic way with the D minor concerto, and I have Minkowsky's G minor symphony in the stack for today's listening.
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

DarkAngel

#149
Quote from: Sorin Eushayson on January 22, 2009, 02:48:42 AM
After listening to both the Bilson/Gardiner and Immerseel sets my overall impression was that Gardiner's was a lot more lively on the whole than Immerseel's, with upbeat tempi and playing; Immerseel saunters through most of the faster movements, though he handles the slower ones wonderfully.  Immerseel's is definitely the best technically-speaking; the fortepiano/orchestra balance in the Gardiner cycle is a bit off, tipped in favour of the orchestra.  However, technical quality comes second to the quality of the performances themselves for me, so Gardiner's is the one I plug in most often.

A great Forte Piano concerto set for Mozart still is yet to be done..........unfortunately

The older Bilson/Archiv has great vibrant orchestral work by Gardiner but the forte piano is dwarfed in scale by the orchestra in the recording and sounds very muffled, a shame that engineers did not do something to rebalance the sound. The newer Immerseel set has much better sound balance in scale between forte piano/orchestra but strangely lacks the dramatic punch/panache needed and often sounds too relaxed both orchestra and piano, so I guess Immerseel is the lesser of two evils and the preferred set...........but you need only listen to the excellent forte piano concertos of Andreas Staier or Ronald Brautigam (Haydn) to know much better is possible and desperately needed

 

DarkAngel

#150
I also rather like the Schiff/Decca set..........despite the rather restrained playing style used by Schiff

The Decca sound is quite good with natural bloom and sense of 3D soundstage, Sandor Vegh & Orchestra offer very lively well sprung support with just the right size scale and balance, great job. Schiff in the notes says his approach to Mozart is "less is more" and he plays very straight will little ornament or overt panache. The advantage for Schiff set lies with selection of Bosendorfer Imperial piano which sounds closer to a forte piano than modern grand, very clear treble and natural in scale when playing the concertos.......almost just like a larger more refined forte piano, just sounds right with Mozart. Too bad there is no discussion of piano model or special playing techniques in the notes.

When compared to say Ashkenazy/Decca although he plays with more extrovert style and vigor than Schiff, his piano just sounds too lush and full and not as natural with Mozart as Schiff's instrument.......




Herman

Quote from: DarkAngel on September 07, 2009, 10:07:24 AM
I also rather like the Schiff/Decca set..........despite the rather restrained playing style used by Schiff

The Decca sound is quite good with natural bloom and sense of 3D soundstage, Sandor Vegh & Orchestra offer very lively well sprung support with just the right size scale and balance, great job. Schiff in the notes says his approach to Mozart is "less is more" and he plays very straight will little ornament or overt panache.

Vegh's conducting is often eally good. I wonder if Schiff is aware that his "less is more" and "straight" is most likely not at all how Mozart played his concertos. The notation at times is rather spare, but that's because the notation was just a memory aide for Mozart the performing pianist and conductor.

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Herman on September 07, 2009, 10:46:54 AM
Vegh's conducting is often eally good. I wonder if Schiff is aware that his "less is more" and "straight" is most likely not at all how Mozart played his concertos. The notation at times is rather spare, but that's because the notation was just a memory aide for Mozart the performing pianist and conductor.

Funny, that was my thought exactly when I was reading DA's post. In all likelihood, Mozart himself ornamented the hell out of these works, although never to the point of gaudy taste. But hey, let's not get all HIP now... :D

8)

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DarkAngel

Quote from: Herman on September 07, 2009, 10:46:54 AM
Vegh's conducting is often eally good. I wonder if Schiff is aware that his "less is more" and "straight" is most likely not at all how Mozart played his concertos. The notation at times is rather spare, but that's because the notation was just a memory aide for Mozart the performing pianist and conductor.

Agreed.......

Schiff mentions in notes that the orchestral sections of concertos were well worked out and documented, but the piano sections were
"sketchy' and required performer to fill in many pieces.........Mozart as piano player/conductor of course only needed reminders and he could freely fill in as concerto progressed.



Opus106

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on September 07, 2009, 10:56:15 AM
In all likelihood, Mozart himself ornamented the hell out of these works


Quote from: DarkAngel on September 07, 2009, 11:01:09 AM
the orchestral sections of concertos were well worked out and documented, but the piano sections were
"sketchy' and required performer to fill in many pieces.........Mozart as piano player/conductor of course only needed reminders and he could freely fill in as concerto progressed.

How I wish I could attend one of those concerts? *sigh*
Regards,
Navneeth

LapsangS

#155
If you want a complete set of these works, period instruments recording, you need to get the Viviana Sofronitzki & Musicae Antiquae Collegium Varsoviense conducted by Tadeusz Karolak. It includes all the mature 23 concertos plus the early arrangements (KV 37-41 and the KV 107 Concertos 1-3). I have a weak spot in listening to KV 107, as it was one of the very first classical pieces I ever heard on a vinyl LP recording. I was about 5 years old and my father had it in his collection. Later in my life I spent quite some time and effort to find a decent interpretation on CD.
Full review here:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2007/Mar07/Mozart_Sofronitzki_041051.htm

Que

#156
Quote from: LapsangS on September 12, 2009, 11:27:01 PM
If you want a complete set of these works, period instruments recording, you need to get the Viviana Sofronitzki & Musicae Antiquae Collegium Varsoviense conducted by Tadeusz Karolak. It includes all the mature 23 concertos plus the early arrangements (KV 37-41 and the KV 107 Concertos 1-3). I have a weak spot in listening to KV 107, as it was one of the very first classical pieces I ever heard on a vinyl LP recording. I was about 5 years old and my father had it in his collection. Later in my life I spent quite some time and effort to find a decent interpretation on CD.
Full review here:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2007/Mar07/Mozart_Sofronitzki_041051.htm

Interesting. I did notice that review but frankly, I dismissed it because the reviewer seemed not very familiar with HIP performances - in general and of Mozart's piano concertos in particular. Naturally that doesn't mean this recording isn't worthwhile. Could you make any comparison with others, like Bilson/Gardiner or Immerseel?

Q

LapsangS

In the past, I used to avoid HIP recordings of Mozart PCs, the only set I had in my collection was the Baremboim/English CO (EMI). But I think I can compare this Sofronitski/MACV set favourably with Andreas Staier & Concerto Köln recordings. Both are excellent soloists and ensembles, recorded with modern crisp sound. The fortepiano is not miked too distant, it is always clearly audible even during the loudest orchestral passages.

Here is a sample mp3 file from Sofronitzki's website: http://www.sofronitzki.com/music/mozart.mp3

(Of course Staier hasn't yet recorded complete set of Mozart PCs, but I hope he will finalize it one day. I really like his playing too).

DarkAngel

Quote from: LapsangS on September 13, 2009, 05:37:40 AM
In the past, I used to avoid HIP recordings of Mozart PCs, the only set I had in my collection was the Baremboim/English CO (EMI). But I think I can compare this Sofronitski/MACV set favourably with Andreas Staier & Concerto Köln recordings. Both are excellent soloists and ensembles, recorded with modern crisp sound. The fortepiano is not miked too distant, it is always clearly audible even during the loudest orchestral passages.
Here is a sample mp3 file from Sofronitzki's website: http://www.sofronitzki.com/music/mozart.mp3

(Of course Staier hasn't yet recorded complete set of Mozart PCs, but I hope he will finalize it one day. I really like his playing too).

Very impressed with that sample and agree that it is similar in overall style to Andeas Staier........and for me much better than Bilson or Immerseel. Has very good sound with proper scale between forte piano and orchestra, and Viviana has a more dramatic playing style compared to Immerseel which I prefer.

Very expensive set to buy however $111 from Amazon sellers   :(

DavidRoss

FWIW:  Ever since Donwyn (our Dancing Divertimentarian) persuaded me to try Schiff/Vegh it has been my reference set.  Buchbinder's more recent set is pretty darned good, too.  Goode is terrific but recorded only the later ctos.  Immerseel is okay if you must have a period pianoforte, but I don't like the sound of the instrument (though he's less objectionable than some I've heard) but the orchestra is fine (if just a bit bloodless--not quite up to the engagement of their Beethoven symphony set, methinks).  I like Uchida's Mozart but do not like Tate's gushy big band approach.  If I want Romanticized big band Mozart, I'll take Ashkenazy, thanks (and I do, sometimes, particularly for the D minor #20!).

Why my two cents?  Mostly to throw the neglected Buchbinder into the mix.  Maybe if he looked like Grimaud instead of like your plumber he'd get more notice.
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher