Mozart Piano Concertos

[Herman]

What did you think of the K491?

Brendel's 491 with Marriner is much better than their 482. The tempo is urgent right from the start.

Nonetheless it's a recording that, I suspect, will not figure much in my future listening. As in 482, the orchestral playing, both in the tutti and the wind solos, is not of the highest level of engagement, and the recording technique doesn't help either  -  somehow it sounds as if there's a curtain between Brendel and the orchestra. This cto is the one with the largest orchestra Mozart ever employed in a concerto; odd as it seem from a classicist standpoint, the orchestral exposition should be near-devastating, when the piano first emerges it should be like a hand reaching out of the darkness, and that's just not the case here*. Also if I make a comparison with the near-contemporary Uchida recording, Tate's ECO sounds more dramatic, and also, Uchida manages to conveigh more character and humor in her part in the finale. And I'm not saying the Uchida is a better of even recommendable recording. It's just strange that Brendel is (relatively) lacking in the humor dept.

* Obviously Brendel has thought longer and better about 491's character than I; no one will pay cash to hear "my" 491. The problem is this record just doesn't quite persuade me of a consistent vision, although I would not put it beyond Philips / Decca to have made it harder with the severely undramatic way they engineered the orchestra - piano mix.

[DarkAngel]

Anyone heard this 2CD concerto set with Schornsheim?

A forte piano version which immediately gets my attention, I have other works by Schornsheim I greatly enjoy
so I am already interested.......just need a push, am concerned the orchestral parts may not be up to her high standards

[Coopmv]

Anyone heard this 2CD concerto set with Schornsheim?

A forte piano version which immediately gets my attention, I have other works by Schornsheim I greatly enjoy
so I am already interested.......just need a push

DA,  I am not like certain people who claim to know it all, but I have yet to experience the artistry of Christine Schornsheim.  Which of her recordings do you think is her signature performance?

[DarkAngel]

DA,  I am not like certain people who claim to know it all, but I have yet to experience the artistry of Christine Schornsheim.  Which of her recordings do you think is her signature performance?

She has a relatively small body of recorded works centered around Haydn, Vivaldi, Bach and similar baroque composers. Does not use piano but instead forte piano, harpsicord, and organ as needed. Her most noteable recording (which many people here have) are the complete Haydn keyboard sonatas ($63 new at Amazon USA 14 Cds).......which are direct competiton to the fine Brautigam set.......don't ask me to choose between them 

[Coopmv]

She has a relatively small body of recorded works centered around Haydn, Vivaldi, Bach and similar baroque composers. Does not use piano but instead forte piano, harpsicord, and organ as needed. Her most noteable recording (which many people here have) are the complete Haydn keyboard sonatas.......which are direct competiton to the fine Brautigam set.......don't ask me to choose between them 

I actually have a good number of forte piano performance by Staier, which I have not played in years.  Indeed, it takes a bit getting used to the tone of a forte piano ...

[George]

She has a relatively small body...

Could be the photo.

[DarkAngel]

I actually have a good number of forte piano performance by Staier, which I have not played in years.  Indeed, it takes a bit getting used to the tone of a forte piano ...

Andreas Staier in at the top of the forte piano food chain, never heard anything less than great from his limited catalog of work.......if only he had more recorded works

[Coopmv]

Christine Schornsheim (Harpsichord, Organ)

   

[SonicMan46]

....... Does not use piano but instead forte piano, harpsicord, and organ as needed. Her most noteable recording (which many people here have) are the complete Haydn keyboard sonatas ($63 new at Amazon USA 14 Cds).......which are direct competiton to the fine Brautigam set.......don't ask me to choose between them 

Stuart - DA's suggestion is excellent!  Unfortunately that box price has escalated (think that I paid about half that amount a while back), but there are 14 discs!  In fact, I'm about to 'pull the trigger' on the 2-CD set of her doing the Haydn Keyboard Concerti, H. XVIII discussed in one of the Papa Joe threads - Dave 

[The new erato]

Stuart - DA's suggestion is excellent!  Unfortunately that box price has escalated (think that I paid about half that amount a while back), but there are 14 discs!  In fact, I'm about to 'pull the trigger' on the 2-CD set of her doing the Haydn Keyboard Concerti, H. XVIII discussed in one of the Papa Joe threads - Dave 

I bought this set at £13 at mdt once upon a time (at the height of Capriccio's troubles); it was available at that price for quite some time.

[Bulldog]

Anyone heard this 2CD concerto set with Schornsheim?

A forte piano version which immediately gets my attention, I have other works by Schornsheim I greatly enjoy
so I am already interested.......just need a push, am concerned the orchestral parts may not be up to her high standards

I have the set and think highly of it; there's no problem with the orchestra or conductor.  The recordings, made in 1989 and 1991, offer excellent sound as well. 

[prémont]

Could be the photo.

[George]

I'm glad that someone laughed. 

[DarkAngel]

I have the set and think highly of it; there's no problem with the orchestra or conductor.  The recordings, made in 1989 and 1991, offer excellent sound as well.

Thanks for the impressions............order has been placed   

George
That was a nice zinger...........

[George]

George
That was a nice zinger...........

0:)

[DarkAngel]

Anyone heard this 2CD concerto set with Schornsheim?

A forte piano version which immediately gets my attention, I have other works by Schornsheim I greatly enjoy
so I am already interested.......just need a push, am concerned the orchestral parts may not be up to her high standards

Bulldog
You were right on target, this is an absolutely delightful concerto set using forte piano an 1815 Dulcken replica.
Balance is ideal with keyboard given proper scale and weight unlike the poor balance of Bilson/Archiv, very detailed presentation with realistic 3D soundstage, sounds just like a trip back in time to hear Mozart perform live. Schornsheim plays with great panache and effortless style, her cadenza work is of the highest standard

All is not perfect of course, I felt the concerto 25 to be too relaxed and would benefit from faster orchestral tempos, the other 3 sound fine especially 1st CD with concertos 17 & 18. The best Mozart forte piano concertos I have heard remain the handful done Andreas Staier, but do not hesitate to get the Shornsheim performances especially if you are HIP 

[Elgarian]

I originally posted this over in the HIP Mozart thread, but Dark Angel has asked me to copy it over to this thread; and since it does indeed follow on from the discussion a few posts back (see #164 above), and since it's arisen partly as a result of his recommendation and LapsangS's (#155), that doesn't seem like a bad idea. So here it is again, with apologies to anyone who's already read it.

I'd like to make a preliminary report on my Great Mozart Piano Concerto Experiment.

The story so far: First, after lengthy anguishing, I bought the horrendously expensive box of HIP concertos with Viviana Sofronitzki on fortepiano, conducted by Tadeusz Karolak:



I listened to quite a lot of the discs - some several times over, and found myself more and more charmed, enchanted, excited, enticed, beguiled by them. This was a huge breakthrough - I've never been fond of the piano, never much enjoyed piano concertos, never cared tuppence for Mozart's in particular; yet here I was, unexpectedly listening over and over and wanting to listen to nothing else. And I started to ask - does the HIP performance really make all this difference? The difference between light and dark? Between Yes and No? I wanted a non-HIP set for comparison, to see how much change had been going on in me, rather than in the type of performance I was listening to.

jpc were selling the Annerose Schmidt/Kurt Masur box for a merely nominal sum, so I sent for one. Shortly afterwards Navneeth pointed out that they were selling the Brendel/Marriner set for not much more, so, fearing the Schmidt/Masur might be rather mediocre, I took the plunge and sent for that as well. They've both arrived:



I've made a first tentative start to the experiment by listening to the 25th (K503), first by Sofronizki, second by Schmidt, third by Brendel. The result - I'm really quite stunned.

I think the Sofronitzki is terrific - vital, rippling playing from the fortepiano, sharp orchestral playing, lovely crunchy HIP sounds - just the thing that's been wowing me for the last couple of weeks.  A winner all the way. So when I put the Schmidt/Masur into the player I expected to be crushingly disappointed.

Well, it sure isn't HIP. And of course the piano sound is so much rounder and smoother and more mellow than the fortepiano. But I was shocked by how much I was being swept along by the music. The orchestral playing is incisive, decisive, urgent, and convincing. Schmidt plays with conviction and vitality. I reached the end amazed and delighted that I seemed to have found a completely different way of enjoying the piano concertos. So then I put on the Brendel and expected to be sent into spasms of ecstasy.

Well... I was surprised to find it was a live recording, so the playing field is certainly not level - but oh, oh, oh, this is everything I used to think Mozart was. The orchestral sound is big, cloudy, imprecise. Brendel plays with astounding skill - so much so that it's impossible to figure how he melds one note into another in the way he does. But where's the humour - the delight, the thrill of discovery, the sharp transitions from heart-stopping beauty to pensive contemplation, to delight, and then back again? This sounds like the kind of Mozart my Mum and Dad would have listened to, if they'd liked Mozart. Smoothed-out Mozart; smeared out Mozart. Mozart to doze by.

You know the first few minutes of the third movement? The best test I could think of was the degree to which I find myself smiling as that jaunty, cheeky tune is first introduced by the orchestra,  then followed by the rippling piano. With Sofronitzki I'm smiling in little fits and starts; with Schmidt, amazingly, I'm smiling non-stop, except for a bar or two where she discovers a reason for sober contemplation, then off we go again. But with Brendel, oh dear, I don't smile at all. I'm full of admiration for the meltingly gorgeous skill, but where's the feeling?

So at the close of round 1, I'm deeply puzzled. My prime allegiance is still to the HIP Sofronitzki. She's early Elvis, at Sun records, rockin' and rollin'. The real thing. But my goodness, there's something to be said for Schmidt and Mazur, who really seem to know where they're going. They're like later Elvis, more polished but emphatic and powerful - yet importantly, pre-Army. Brendel and Marriner seem like post-army Elvis - the sanitised, Elvis-made-safe, suitable for family listening.

In short - this has proved to be a fascinating exercise. When, after some years' time, I've worked my way through all of these concertos in triplicate like this, maybe I shall understand this HIP-business a little better?

[DavidRoss]

I stumbled upon it by chance while browsing through jpc's special offers, looking for a cheap box set of non-HIP Mozart concertos. When I saw the price (still available for 14.99 euros last time I looked)

I see jpc.de is offering Buchbinder's set for €45.  A nice alternative, though I still prefer Schiff's set, and the Goode/Orpheus recordings of the later PCs.  Wish Pires/Abbado had recorded more of them.  And among my guilty pleasures are Ashkenazy's lush, romantic recordings. 

[Scarpia]

And among my guilty pleasures are Ashkenazy's lush, romantic recordings.

No one outdoes Barenboim/Berlin Philharmonic for lush, romantic, except perhaps Barbirolli/Schnabel

[DarkAngel]

I think Elgarian has really made a great find with the Annerose Schmidt set, great price at JPC with complete short samples. In some ways reminds me of the Geza Anda set with fleet tempos that sparkle with imagination and wit, Masur has never sounded this good to me, puts a smile on my face I am a buyer..........

http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Wolfgang-Amadeus-Mozart-21-Klavierkonzerte/hnum/6348294