Mozart Piano Concertos

[Mozart]

Sofronitski!!!

I love her

The best set on period instruments!

[DarkAngel]

Sofronitski!!!

I love her
The best set on period instruments!

Did you read post 203 here and the discussion that followed........
Some professional reviewer said it was bad, and I gave the strong counter positive viewpoint but I think many people here put more weight in what the some professional had to say 

[Mozart]

Did you read post 203 here and the discussion that followed........
Some professional reviewer said it was bad, and I gave the strong counter positive viewpoint but I think many people here put more weight in what the some professional had to say 

Is that a professional reviewer? I don't know about anyone else but I don't pop in one disk after the other until I go through all 11! I listen to 1 concerto based on my mood (now number 16). The piano she plays on for me is the best sounding one of all the recordings I have.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qxk50KlKmc

I like the evenness between the orchestra and piano.

Lubin is my 2nd choice and then Bilson.

[Scarpia]

There's this one, which is lovely.

[Elgarian]

Sofronitski!!!

I love her

The best set on period instruments!

The polarisation generated here is really quite fascinating. It seems there's a tendency for Sofronitzki to be either first choice and adored, or bottom choice and dismissed as quirky. Now, I must say that as my experiments proceed (that is, listening to the same concertos as played by Sofronitzki, Schmidt, and Brendel), I find the situation becoming less clear-cut than I expected. On the one hand, listening to the Brendel versions is becoming a duty, rather than a pleasure. I can't believe Mozart expected his music to sound so silkily humourless, and Marriner's cloudy orchestral sound makes matters worse - so I think the Brendel set is likely to be abandoned soon. On the other hand, I find I'm putting the Schmidt CDs into the player with as much pleasure and anticipation as the Sofronitzki - not because I prefer them, but because I find both so attractive and convincing, in different ways. Put a gun to my head and I'll take Sofronitzki; but I'd shed serious tears at the loss of the Schmidt, HIP or no HIP. I feel as if I'm drowning in Mozart PCs at present, but it's a great way to go ....

[DavidRoss]

I feel as if I'm drowning in Mozart PCs at present, but it's a great way to go ....

This is one of those great bodies of work that I get so caught up in from time to time that I listen to them over and over, scarcely bothering to hear anything else.  And with "humorless" (or was it "humourless?"  ), I think you've hit the nail on the head regarding Brendel, whose virtuosity is admirable but whose recordings seldom inspire me.  Perhaps he intellectualizes the music rather than feels it...?  At least that's how it seems to me.

[Elgarian]

This is one of those great bodies of work that I get so caught up in from time to time that I listen to them over and over, scarcely bothering to hear anything else.

That's quite reassuring - I was beginning to wonder if there was a touch of the obsessive about the approach I was adopting, but in truth I think as you say there's so much towering greatness here, that it seems impossible to get to the core of it.

I presume the polarisation I mentioned in my earlier post is arising because each listener and/or interpreter, comes to this music finding different things in it - and its greatness means that those different things really are there to be found, because the music is greater than any one interpretation of it. What Sofronitzki finds, and tries to express, really is there, I suppose; and what Brendel finds, also, and so on. I wonder if it's worth trying to pin this down a little more?

Because I've come to these PCs almost directly from Mozart's operas, I tend to be looking for the same sort of Mozartian insights that I find in the operas. And one of the things that I find so attractive about the operas is how much of the feel of real life is in them - that is, the complex ever-changing feeling of life-as-we-live-it. It doesn't matter how daft the plot is; what counts is what the music tells us about the changing situations. I'm thinking, for example, of Fiordiligi's 'Like a fortress' aria, where she's adopting such a noble, admirable stance, and the music is taking us along with this so wonderfully, except ... there are little orchestral passages that seem to cast doubt on all this; that there's something a bit over the top about all this nobility, which may not be quite what it seems. That's the sort of thing I mean - that mix of the noble with the absurd; the idea that we're never so vulnerable as when we're seeming the opposite. No one expresses those little fleeting moments, musically, like Mozart.

There's a passage near the beginning of the third movement of the 25th piano concerto, where after about 45 seconds of orchestral introduction the piano takes over. The whole sequence during these few minutes is pretty well adorable no matter who plays it, but there's one short passage that illustrates exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. The solo piano begins as it means to go on (that is, making us smile) for about 10 seconds, and then the gear shifts momentarily. The next ten seconds (let me call it passage X) are slower and very different - and then we're back on track again. I want to focus on passage X.

When Sofronitzki plays, I revel in it because the music's cheerful smiling is so attractive. She doesn't make too much of Passage X, though - it's treated like a breathing space between the previous 10 cheerful seconds, and the subsequent continuation of cheerfulness. When Brendel plays it, we barely notice passage X as being very different, at all. The liquid gold has been poured out over the keys from the start, and there never really was much cheerfulness to be interrupted. But when Schmidt plays passage X, it is heartstopping. It's as if, in the midst of telling a joke, someone has just remembered something unspeakably moving, and chokes, but then continues with the joke, because life must go on. The point is - for me this is bang-on-target Mozart - the Mozart I love in the operas - the Mozart who says, you see, life is like this, and this, and this...., and it's no single one of these, but all of these things.

Now - if this is not the Mozart you love above all (and there are so many reasons for loving the stuff that it might easily not be), then Schmidt (or Sofronitzki) may seem quirky, or lacking in fluency or subtlety (that is, a different kind of subtlety to the kind I'm describing here). And my point is that this polarisation isn't arising because some of us are right and some of us are wrong, but because the music is so huge that we're all partly, and differently, right. (And, I suppose, we're all partly, and differently ... not wrong exactly, but incomplete.)

[Mozart]

It's as if, in the midst of telling a joke, someone has just remembered something unspeakably moving, and chokes, but then continues with the joke, because life must go on.

Haha I love how you described it Mozart does it alot! There can the brightest music possible and then a cloud passes over the sun and it seems ut of place but also in a way there were hints of it coming in the brightness. I love those moments

And, I suppose, we're all partly, and differently ... not wrong exactly, but incomplete.)

Only Mozart is complete 

[DavidRoss]

...there's so much towering greatness here, that it seems impossible to get to the core of it.  ...each listener and/or interpreter, comes to this music finding different things in it - and its greatness means that those different things really are there to be found, because the music is greater than any one interpretation of it.

Because I've come to these PCs almost directly from Mozart's operas, I tend to be looking for the same sort of Mozartian insights that I find in the operas. And one of the things that I find so attractive about the operas is how much of the feel of real life is in them - that is, the complex ever-changing feeling of life-as-we-live-it.

I love seeing your thoughtfulness at work, Alan, as you explore this music so many of us love so much.  I think you've hit the nail squarely with the observations quoted above.  To me Mozart's late operas and late piano concertos are very closely related and, like all great art, are richer than any single interpretation can describe.

[Coopmv]

Just makes you wanna cry.

I used to love to drop into HMV a few blocks up 5th ave. They had a clerk there who was very helpful in choosing classical recordings. After they closed, he got a job at the downtown Virgin, saw him there a few times before they also closed. Luckily the best brick and mortar in NYC for new CDs is still standing - JandR.

George,  The old JandR Classical Music was much better IMO.  It lasted until the mid 90's.

[George]

George,  The old JandR Classical Music was much better IMO.  It lasted until the mid 90's.

The new one still kicks ass. Even when Tower, HMV and the others were all open, I still preferred JandR. Great selection, prices, customer service and very knowledgeable staff.

[Lethevich]

Elgarian - it's balls that you didn't like the Brendel much, I probably should've said why I liked it as it could've helped avoid a bad buy. Primerally Brendel in Mozart was a mini revelation for me because I was so used to zippy (or excessively grand, but this style is out of fashion and increasingly harder to come across) Mozart which took great pains to say "I am Mozart, the extrovert genius, listen to my endless happy melodies, how they doth flow" that to hear Brendel's inward approach took Mozart closer to the joy-tempered-with-seriousness of Beethoven's set, which I found more immediately "graspable". In hindsight this does seem somewhat opposed to the chamber music style you are looking for, but I never really found Marriner's accompaniment to be terrible, just a bit workaday.

[Herman]

and I want t add that if any pianist can bring out the humor in Mozart it's Brendel. I agree Brendel, in this recording, isn' always helped by Mariner and the ASMF. However, from what I heard in the clips Schmidt and Masur are much worse in this respect.

[Elgarian]

and I want t add that if any pianist can bring out the humor in Mozart it's Brendel. I agree Brendel, in this recording, isn' always helped by Mariner and the ASMF. However, from what I heard in the clips Schmidt and Masur are much worse in this respect.

Worth saying a couple of things here. First, I'm not suggesting 'humour' as a universal key to Mozart's PCs - far from it. It just so happened that the humorous aspect figures strongly in the passages I was discussing. What I'm paying attention to is not one particular aspect but the complexity of aspects - the little changes in mood, sometimes so fleeting that we barely register them. Pretty much as we live them, in fact. This is the thing that seems to attract me most strongly to Mozart in the first place, so I'm looking for performances that reflect that.

The second point - which I should have thought of before - is that humour is, as we know, a very personal thing; and the joke that has Jack folding up in laughter leaves Jill completely cold. So I believe you when you say Brendel can bring out the humour in Mozart for you - but I don't much hear it myself. Or rather, I hear something, but wouldn't call it humour, and it doesn't make me smile. This is the great difficulty of these comparisons - we're trying to talk about things that really can only be shown.

The third point is that my perceptions are changing as I become more familiar with the music and the performances. I've now listened to no 25, for instance, about half a dozen times played by Sofronitzki (I've had her set longest), three times played by Schmidt, and twice played by Brendel. My impressions of them now bear little resemblance to what they were when I first listened to the short online samples. (Actually when I listened to the samples I thought Brendel's performances were very enticing, and I bought the set expecting to enjoy them very much.)

And most importantly, I'm certainly not recommending that the Brendel set is a dud to be avoided, and that the Schmidt set is a treasure that all should possess. I'm just talking about the journey I'm taking, and the effect it's having on me, and trying to express that - the better to understand what's going on myself, hopefully.

[Elgarian]

Elgarian - it's balls that you didn't like the Brendel much, I probably should've said why I liked it as it could've helped avoid a bad buy.

I doubt it. I was pretty determined to go for it. Before I took the plunge, I listened to the samples and thought they sounded very attractive; and I was somewhat familar with Brendel through some of his Beethoven sonatas, so was easily beguiled by the name and the silky legato. Just one of those things. I don't actually regret the purchase because I've already learned so much from the exercise I'm engaged in.

[Lethevich]

Just don't let the experience put you off Brendel's Schubert and Haydn, if you find yourself exploring those avenues in future (a natural progression from his fine Beethoven)!

[George]

Just don't let the experience put you off Brendel's Schubert and Haydn, if you find yourself exploring those avenues in future (a natural progression from his fine Beethoven)!

Though I don't enjoy his Beethoven, I agree that his Schubert and Haydn are well worth investigating.

[Elgarian]

Just don't let the experience put you off Brendel's Schubert and Haydn, if you find yourself exploring those avenues in future (a natural progression from his fine Beethoven)!

and George said:

Though I don't enjoy his Beethoven, I agree that his Schubert and Haydn are well worth investigating.

My appreciation of music has more holes in it than a colander, and oddly enough, I've never been particularly fond of Beethoven's sonatas; but Brendel was the only interpreter who came close to making me fonder. So I'd never write him off. I hereby solemnly promise to approach his Schubert and Haydn with an open mind, sometime in the future.
X [Elgarian, his mark]

[Coopmv]

Elgarian - it's balls that you didn't like the Brendel much, I probably should've said why I liked it as it could've helped avoid a bad buy. Primerally Brendel in Mozart was a mini revelation for me because I was so used to zippy (or excessively grand, but this style is out of fashion and increasingly harder to come across) Mozart which took great pains to say "I am Mozart, the extrovert genius, listen to my endless happy melodies, how they doth flow" that to hear Brendel's inward approach took Mozart closer to the joy-tempered-with-seriousness of Beethoven's set, which I found more immediately "graspable". In hindsight this does seem somewhat opposed to the chamber music style you are looking for, but I never really found Marriner's accompaniment to be terrible, just a bit workaday.

You cannot expect a true Handelian to like Mozart much, no matter who the pianist is ...   

[Opus106]

You cannot expect a true Handelian to like Mozart much, no matter who the pianist is ...   

Except Mozart himself.